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What is the best camouflage jacket (& trousers) that money can buy? (1 Viewer)

Montane jackets use the same pertex/fleece combo as Buffalo and other jackets, this is not the same as the Paramo system there are no chemicals and magic membranes involved. There are not, and don't claim to be waterproof. What the do do is shed water faster than it can penetrate through the fleece, so that the outer layers get wet but the inside stays dry. This works well and as there are no chemicals to wash out or membranes to damage they are durable garments. They do have two big drawbacks, first they rely on the fleece to work hence they provide insulation in even their lightest form, second they rely on body heat to drive the water out, fine if you are slogging up a hill but if you are sitting out in the rain doing nothing but waiting for birds they will loose there ability to resist the ingress of water.

They are a great hill garment and are widely used but all the folk I know who use one will still pack a hardshell Goretex type waterproof to provide barrier if they have to hang around in the rain.

Plus neither Buffalo nor Montane make a camo one, you can get an olive green one which is widely used in the British Army.
 
I'd be interested to know what the Army do nowadays.

I remember with school cadets being told it's very important to let the clothing breath. We had leather boots and woolen clothing. And then we had a total downpour and we got so wet that t was as if you had waded through a swimming pool. Catastrophic advice.

Given Goretex's lack of durability, rustling and poor fire resistance I'm guessing that army dont use the stuff... [EDIT: Possibly they might use Ventile although maybe not being as it's rather expensive!]
 
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For nature watching you won't need camouflage - it is a misconception. Clothing in reduced hues (darker browns, greens etc) work perfectly well to break up an individuals outline under normal conditions.

As far as military gear is concerned it is more often of a particular camouflage pattern for tactical purposes and less for actual camouflage purposes.

As mentioned by a number of folks in the thread fieldcraft is the all important part ;)
 
For nature watching you won't need camouflage - it is a misconception. Clothing in reduced hues (darker browns, greens etc) work perfectly well to break up an individuals outline under normal conditions.

Please provide evidence for this opinion.

This sounds off-the-scale unlikely to me. Even standing still doesn't necessarily help. As any scareCROW will tell you.

Moreover if the camouflage is taken to extremes... (see attached) the fact that another human can find it almost impossible to see someone is a really good camouflage outfit clearly counts for quite a lot (bird UV sensors not withstanding!)

For example there is absolutely no way that someone inside what is effectively portable bird hide covered in leaves (see attached!) is going to be as distracting to wildlife as someone of clearly human shape in a dull plain green gortex smock!
 

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For nature watching you won't need camouflage - it is a misconception. Clothing in reduced hues (darker browns, greens etc) work perfectly well to break up an individuals outline under normal conditions.

Agreed. Over here all the hunters just wear dull green or brown clothing, no camouflage gear at all. And they're likely to know what they're doing. Camouflage is really only important if you don't want to be seen by *people* which is why the military prefers it.

Two additional things: Wearing a hat breaks up the outline of the head quite nicely. And it's pretty useful to avoid any clothing that rustles or makes any other noise. I hate velcro ... :)

Goretex - well, I don't use it anymore, except occasionally when birding in autumn and winter in very wet and windy conditions. Most shell clothing makes far too much noise. I also find goretex only really works in a rather narrow temperature range, and it doesn't last well. I'm back to wearing more traditional garments, carrying a poncho (or an umbrella) in my pack, and in mountainous areas some lightweight shell clothing in case the weather turns nasty.

Hermann
 
For nature watching you won't need camouflage - it is a misconception. Clothing in reduced hues (darker browns, greens etc) work perfectly well to break up an individuals outline under normal conditions.

As far as military gear is concerned it is more often of a particular camouflage pattern for tactical purposes and less for actual camouflage purposes.

As mentioned by a number of folks in the thread fieldcraft is the all important part ;)

Agreed.

Fieldcraft and keeping still provide outstanding and often unexpected results.

Camo as an essential is a myth and nothing else. Marketing creates the desire, mainly to spend to keep up.

Camo is what fishermen wear to Tescos ;)


Best wishes,
 
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Agreed.
Camo as an essential is a myth and nothing else. Marketing creates the desire, mainly to spend to keep up.

Thinking it through, are you claiming that is a material is still the same 3D shape that a bird will be just as likely to think it a human?

Or are you saying that if you show your face, that your clothing is essentially irrelevant (provided the colours are muted and not moving)?

It's certainly true that hiding under branches and leaves can work well - or are you disputing that too?
 
They may not be lightweight, but the M65 field jacket is hard to beat. Comes in sand, black and khaki green, there may be some camo options too. I've worn mine for years and is totally waterproof and warm due to the removeable quilted inner liner. It also has the advantage of large pockets too. I'd go one size down though as they do come up pretty generous.
 
They may not be lightweight, but the M65 field jacket is hard to beat. Comes in sand, black and khaki green, there may be some camo options too. I've worn mine for years and is totally waterproof and warm due to the removeable quilted inner liner. It also has the advantage of large pockets too. I'd go one size down though as they do come up pretty generous.

How well does it perform in foul weather?

> Material: NyCo (50% Nylon, 50% Cotton).
> Liner: outer covering - 100% nylon, batting - 100% polyester

It doesn't sound too water proof.


P.S. Not helpful given that much of my birding is done in the West Highlands of Scotland (!)
 
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How well does it perform in foul weather?

> Material: NyCo (50% Nylon, 50% Cotton).
> Liner: outer covering - 100% nylon, batting - 100% polyester

It doesn't sound too water proof.


P.S. Not helpful given that much of my birding is done in the West Highlands of Scotland (!)

It's quarpel treated, and mine has never leaked, and i've been out in a fair few downpours, not to mention snow. One thing that is worth mentioning is where you buy it from. I originally went to an army surplus place and i've never had any problems with it, but i've seen some reviews on Amazon for the same jacket and noticed that some reviews have been less than stellar, which leads me to believe that the waterproofing applied (or not as the case may be) is not always the same.
 
I had never heard of "quarpel" until now.
Apparently Quarpel is short for "Quartermaster Repellent" which was invented by the U.S. Army Natick Laboratories way back in 1959 and consists of a fluorocarbon, which repels both water and hydro-carbon oils.

According to this link, quarpel is not designed to last and will gradually wear off:
http://www.itsamodthing.com/frequently_asked_questions.html

And will only survive "up to 15 launderings":
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=225248

Although the M65 fishtail parka is made of cotton sateen which is quarpel (water repellent) treated, they are not classed as waterproof. Whilst the quarpel treatment is still new, rain will form in droplets on the M65 parka and fall off. However over time, the quarpel treatment will fade away and protection will be lost

So although it may work well initially, I will find it irritating if there is no way to make it last...
 
I had never heard of "quarpel" until now.
Apparently Quarpel is short for "Quartermaster Repellent" which was invented by the U.S. Army Natick Laboratories way back in 1959 and consists of a fluorocarbon, which repels both water and hydro-carbon oils.

According to this link, quarpel is not designed to last and will gradually wear off:
http://www.itsamodthing.com/frequently_asked_questions.html

And will only survive "up to 15 launderings":
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=225248

Although the M65 fishtail parka is made of cotton sateen which is quarpel (water repellent) treated, they are not classed as waterproof. Whilst the quarpel treatment is still new, rain will form in droplets on the M65 parka and fall off. However over time, the quarpel treatment will fade away and protection will be lost

So although it may work well initially, I will find it irritating if there is no way to make it last...

You could do what i did -- wash the inner quilted liner, but not the quarpel treated outer layer. It really depends on how dirty you expect to get, and whether you're happy with not washing the outer part. Not washing it didn't really bother me that much, but then, i'm no domestic goddess. ;)

Hope you find something you like, very often it's just a case of personal preference and trial and error.
 
The camo is all but useless. Hunters find some use as they move very little to take aim. Any walking movement is detected by birds. Birds generally see much better than mammals.

Concentrate on the weather aspect. I've bought camo boots as the non camo was too hard to find locally and I need to try boots, no mail order.
 
Riverswest sounds interesting. They seem to be good in several ways however there isn't much talk about the critical aspect of breathability - which is crucial when doing any sort of hill-climbing.

EDIT:
PS This guy claims that in practice that they aren't breathable "at all" !
http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-30661.html
>>>
I have rivers west gear (amongst others) and can honestly say that it is not breathable at all. If you are looking for something to keep you warm and dry in a high seat etc then I would definitely recommend, but the minute you become active you will be soaked on the inside. Because they are so waterproof I find that I have to turn the jacket inside out to get it to dry out.
>>>
 
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I'm a great fan of the Buffalo range of clothing and have the Special six and Active lite shirts. The Special six is too hot if active and over about 5 C but the Active lite is ok up to T shirt weather. Both are warm and comfortable when wet (from sweat or rain). Wind and shower proof - in heavy rain a waterproof shell keeps the worst off. Since the temperature is usually over 5C I use the Active lite (I have 3) and a Montane Prism jacket for stops. Buffalo do jackets that are good but I prefer something smaller and lighter in my pack. Not camo but you can get a camo shell.
 
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