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gulls (2 Viewers)

Well my first stab before was that it may be heuglini, now with that wing and tail pattern you are scaring me - I saw a bird with not dissimilar wings and tail out here a couple of years ago - and I couldn't work out what that was

I'm sure the primary moult says something about it but I'm not up enough on that - slow developing cachinanns (based on bill build)/barabensis?

You don't have the horror of michahellis x cachinanns there do you!

Cheers
Andrew
 
You don't have the horror of michahellis x cachinanns there do you!

Cheers
Andrew

i'm in search for them! no proven interbreeding yet but i guess somewhere at sometime it must happen as it does in poland. nobody bothered till now in romania, they used to be regarded as 1 sp. (cachinnans, 1-2 decades ago as argentatus...).

there has been a confusing mix of pix: the last one with raised wings (landing) is not the same ind. as the one before though also 2cy 5.8.07 black sea coast and also the same species - with one tiny questionmark in the second one, pointed by the black arrow.

same one starting before (edited)

cheers
 

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thanks jan, if i had time to spend hours of looking through all that again...
still that 2cy bird (black sea coast) looks so micha like!

another one to stay in the race
 

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This gull ("8DU") is really a michahellis. It was ringed as a chick in Poeto Lagos in Greece on May 15th, 2003 and was seen in Finland during three consecutive years. On this page you can find a section devoted to the bird, with pictures from all three years:
http://www.bongariliitto.fi/kuvat/11_Rantalinnut/11h_Lokit/index_content.html

During its first summer (2nd c.y.) it was really similar to many argentatus, and wouldn't have been accepted without the ring. Note that as a 3rd c.y. bird it had lost one of its legs, fortunately not the ringed one...

By the way, if anyone is interested in the variation of 1st c.y. michahellis during the late summer (not that it would have much to do with the 2nd c.y. gulls), this page (by Visa Rauste) is surely worth a visit (containing hundreds of photos):

http://www.helsinki.fi/~rauste/juvmic/
 
Hello CAU!

Of course - it´s 8DU - forgot about that at the moment.

Rauste´s michahellis site is very good, very good images!

JanJ
 
allright, nothing to complain about visa rauste and a chat about larid-related sites;
still there's some answers open, e.g. for the 2cy in post 78 and the last one in post 84.
bored?
 
Well Lou - the one in #78 seems best for cachinnans if the choice between that and michahellis. comparing with these 2cy michahellis the bill size/shape appears to be the one of the more obvious difference, apart from moult schedule - which in this case is not so reliable due to variation.

http://www.pbase.com/stephaubry/micha2&page=all

http://www.pbase.com/slisch/image/83589776

http://www.pbase.com/slisch/image/83529223

http://www.pbase.com/slisch/image/83098670

http://www.pbase.com/slisch/image/82397677

The last gull looks michahellis like although I´m not convinced. Is there a small mirror?
In that case - what doe´s that conclude?

JanJ
 
What Jan said for 78 & 84;)

Given the adult was a short legged cach, and the head and bill on 78 should be cach?

84 looks more mich. but maybe you're sneaking some kind of dodgy herring in there Lou.

Cheers,
Andrew
 
What Jan said for 78 & 84;)

Given the adult was a short legged cach, and the head and bill on 78 should be cach?

84 looks more mich. but maybe you're sneaking some kind of dodgy herring in there Lou.

Cheers,
Andrew

2 flightshots of the last bird ;) ;)

the adult - short-legged cach, did you mean the problematic one with dark eyes and strong gonys? edit: sorry just saw that you meant the female type in #80.

i'm not convinced of the cachi-solution for #78 2cy bird either...but open for discussion; after some more looks, it might well be a cachi. most 2cy at that time and place were prob. michas that's why i assumed this would be one of those odds YLG.
 

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sorry to go on, just can't resist: what is this one
 

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- #84 and #90 - it's not a michahellis i guess as you can see from the flightpics.
- the ad in #91 is from a friend who visited a place with strong continental climate and this steep slope is actually the shore/banks of ------? i should give triple points to people other than jan j., about any information (place/region, age, taxon etc.) you can guess from the pix.
 
The Herring Gull in #93 have some GBBG characters - inner primaries, greater coverts, a possble tail band, and bill size, but is it one?

The Gull in #91 might well be a vegae, but that is in fact really impossible to tell from these images, unless we get a hint of location - if even then?

JanJ
 
The Herring Gull in #93 have some GBBG characters - inner primaries, greater coverts, a possble tail band, and bill size, but is it one?

The Gull in #91 might well be a vegae, but that is in fact really impossible to tell from these images, unless we get a hint of location - if even then?

JanJ

if i tell you the location it would be cristal clear. vegae is almost correct ;) they differ structurally and esp. in 1st winter birds but also in ad winter birds significantly
 
that 1cy herring gull in #93 looks damn like a GBBG (that's what i was thinking immediately on first view) bu it might be an odd argenteus/argentatus. could we get further in the ID of it?

the ad. in #91 was taken in september on the steep slopes of lake baikal which of course makes it a mongolicus. interesting that in glutz v. blotzheim (birds of middle europe) it is cited that the birds breeding at lake baikal all have yellow legs. i think this statement as many others in that book about "cachinnans" are really out of order.

and as d. liebers shows in her dissertation paper about the colonization in large northern gulls, mongolicus is a "young" taxon, having colonized inner asia from the pacific, thus closely related to vegae, andrew ;) (that's at least half a point if i gave some!)

to the bird in #84 and #90: do you still think it is a michahellis? :

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=58781&highlight=marburg+gull ;) 3:)
 
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these 2 for me still look more like michahellis, in spite of the small white mirror (is it one ???) in the growing p10 for the first and in spite of the pointed looking bill in the second.

plus 2 new to guess
 

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