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Diver, Norway (1 Viewer)

johnny_j

Member
OK, I know this is hopeless with these crappy photos, but I'm hoping someone might be able to tell me something about this diver. A Black Throat or one of the two bigger species?
 

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I agree that the forehead of the bird doesn't look especially steep or the bill especially large, but the colour of the neck fits much better White-billed Diver than BTD. In the two first photos it can been seen how the frontal neck contrasts against the white breast, and additionally that the lower frontal neck is darker than the upper.

http://www.fugler.net/fn.asp?nowpage=bilder&MODE=DETALJ&utnr=0&BildeID=2056

http://www.mangoverde.com/birdsound/picpages/pic8-5-1.html

http://www.bongariliitto.fi/kuvat/03_Kuikkalinnut/gavada_20041229_sysma_kuhpe/gavada_291204b.jpg

The frontal neck of a Black-throated Diver is white:
http://www.fugler.net/fn.asp?nowpage=bilder&MODE=DETALJ&utnr=0&BildeID=6829

(I'm not saying that I would id the bird as anything.)
 
Thanks for all the input, everyone!

Looking at the photos again with "fresh eyes" I certainly get a BT feel. What confused me most, was that in real life it looked quite big and light-coloured. But it might just have been a false impression due to bright sunshine and my own expectations..

I will look through my photos later and see if there's anything useful to upload, having that neck colour in mind.

Thank you!
 
Hi.

I think it is a GND. I base this on pic.3. the "white notch" above the collar, which cuts from the white throat into the dark of the side/rear of the neck is clearly visible (or as visible as any other details in any of the pictures.). Also one of the diagnostic markings for of BTD is the white patch on the flank, this is not visible in any of the pictures, this is not because the bird is sitting low in the water because if you look at the stern of the bird in pic.1. it is high enough to show at least some (allowing for the rear end view) of the white patch to be seen.

Twite.
 
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hi johnny
great norhern diver for me,are these photos all of the same bird because
the last pic seems to be a bit differant to me it reminds me of a red breasted
merganser.
 
Hi Ian, it is the same bird, it was the only swimming bird i could see. I suppose the merganser is a product of low quality optics and a change in sun light and camera settings;)

I fully understand that ID from these photos may not be possible, but I'm surprised how much information you all have been able to share!

More photos here.
 

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..and some more:
 

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And here come last photos. All comments are appreciated!
 

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Hi Johnny.

Based on the latest series of Photos, I've now changed my mind.. am I allowed to do that? ;) I now think YBD. The reasons? There are a few photos which I think show the bird to be holding its bill pointing upwards, the bill also appears light coloured, dare I say yellowish, but the main thing for me is the facial pattern, the light pattern appears more extensive than on GND. I also think its somewhere between summer and winter plumage.

Twite.
 
I think that based on the new pictures the bird is pretty certainly a White-billed Diver. A Great Northern Diver has a darker hindneck than back, less pale colour around the eye, a whiter frontal neck, and thr head and neck are generally more black and white, not so brownish. In some pictures you can even see a hint of a yellowish bill (especially in the last two).

Here are GNDs for comparison:
http://www.fugler.net/nye/bilder/bilde.asp?bildeID=7414
http://www.fugler.net/nye/bilder/bilde.asp?bildeID=6810
(the first one is a worn 2nd c.y. bird, at this time of the year juvenile GNDs are darker, though I don't know when Johnny's photos are taken).

For the British readers I can tell that White-billed Diver isn't that rare in Norway, and at least in the northern parts of the country it is more common than GND.
 
Yeah, I'm picking up a dark half collar in some of them, and no white flanks in any. Looks like a big one.

And well done everybody for not daring to mention Pacific Diver! |;|
 
[Based on the latest series of Photos, I've now changed my mind.. am I allowed to do that? I now think YBD]

Twite, of course you are! I change my mind three times every time I look through those pics ;)

CAU, pictures are taken two days ago in Finnmark. So YB is a likely possibility based on distribution.

Tim, I understand your point. Some photos show lightish head and bill plus YB type posture, but is it enough? With my own non-existing experience of winter-divers and without outside help I wouldn't be able to say much about this one. Better optics could have saved us from this discussion, but then I would have missed a good learning opportunity..

James, what about the missing white flank? :smoke:

OK, seriously though.. Is it possible to draw a conclusion, that is YB, or is it better left unidentified and make him/her decide for itself what it wants to be..?
 
OK, seriously though.. Is it possible to draw a conclusion, that is YB, or is it better left unidentified and make him/her decide for itself what it wants to be..? Johnny.

Hi Johnny.

Given that you are well within the range of the YBD, IMHO the pics. (especially the later series of pics.) taking the quality into account, show enough to rule out any other species, and so having ruled out other species you are left with YBD.

"Better optics could have saved us from this discussion, but then I would have missed a good learning opportunity.." Johnny.

I couldn't agree more. :t:

Twite.
 
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OK then, Yellow Billed it is! (With some caution though..)

Warm thank you everyone for sharing your comments and views! I didn't expect to get so much information out of those pics. Now I may be a bit better prepared for the next distant diver. CAU, thanks for the links, have to study them..

I'm all ears for any opposition of the ID ;)
 
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