• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Caspian or Yellow Legged Gull? (1 Viewer)

T

tittletattler

Well-known member
Attached are some pics of two 2nd winter gulls seen at Littlebrook yesterday.

1) A 2nd winter Yellow Legged Gull.
2) A bird that is either another 2nd winter Yellow Legged Gull or a (female?) 2nd winter Caspian Gull.

Both birds superficially look very similar. However, the 2nd bird has a more sloping forehead, thinner legs that appear to be longer above the knee, longer necked and a longer, thinner billed. Most of the 2nd winter Caspians so far this winter have been large (bullying!) males so it's possible that we've been overlooking the smaller, more subtle females.

Andy.
 

Attachments

  • 2ndwinYL.JPG
    2ndwinYL.JPG
    75.9 KB · Views: 301
  • 2ndwingullsp.JPG
    2ndwingullsp.JPG
    67.7 KB · Views: 301
  • 2ndwingullsp2.JPG
    2ndwingullsp2.JPG
    79.5 KB · Views: 230
  • 2ndwingullsp3.JPG
    2ndwingullsp3.JPG
    68.5 KB · Views: 262
Hello Andy!

Nice ones, and certainly one of each - that is to say - in the first pic. YLG and the other Caspian!
As you say rather similar except for the bill size and shape/jizz. Good examples these two - and fairly easy once you get the hang of it (I remember one top birder who expressed him self like I did now - and it turned out that he was wrong!) Not that I am now. ;)

Cheers

JanJ

January Finland:

http://www.helsinki.fi/~rauste/gulls/hannu12.html
 
Last edited:
Hi Andy

Nice pics (again)!

I'd go with one of each as well; the legs and bill on the second bird do enough to convince me it's a cachinnans. The final photo is a good example of the classic high, full chest, as well. Small bullet-hole eye as well, without the faint dark smudging behind the eye that the 1st bird exhibits.

Must get back down to Littlebrook. First visit last year produced three different Caspians, but since then I've drawn a blank in a couple of brief trips.
 
dbradnum said:
Hi Andy
Nice pics (again)!
I'd go with one of each as well; the legs and bill on the second bird do enough to convince me it's a cachinnans. The final photo is a good example of the classic high, full chest, as well. Small bullet-hole eye as well, without the faint dark smudging behind the eye that the 1st bird exhibits.
Must get back down to Littlebrook. First visit last year produced three different Caspians, but since then I've drawn a blank in a couple of brief trips.
Click to expand...

Thanks Janj and David,

There were four Caspians present on Saturday afternoon including the two regular birds (1st win & 2nd win) and another female type bird that I had missed a few weeks back.

I'll post some more pics tonight.

There were also some interesting Yellow Leggeds present and I'll post some pics of them aswell.

Thanks again,

Andy.

Ps - David - Give me a call if you find you have an hour or two spare next weekend and I'll happily meet you at Littlebrook if you like. There was just one LBB there yesterday so phone me first and I can check the site before you make the trip.
 
JANJ said:
Hello Andy. all.
Just a few good Caspian and Yellow-legged Gull images.
http://www.waarneming.nl/soort.php?id=937&wno_datum_van=19000101&wno_datum_tm=20070214&tab=foto
http://www.waarneming.nl/soort.php?tab=foto&id=250
JanJ
Click to expand...

Hi Janj,

Thanks for the links above which are, as ever, very useful.

Sorry I didn't keep to my initial promise, I've been extremely busy.

First of all, here are the same two birds from my original post. However, the images are uncropped and this shows just how small this particular Caspian Gull was.

Cheers,

Andy.
 

Attachments

  • 2ndwinYLv2.JPG
    2ndwinYLv2.JPG
    69.7 KB · Views: 109
  • 2ndwinCaspian1.JPG
    2ndwinCaspian1.JPG
    71 KB · Views: 125
I seem to have overcooked this shot in photoshop (taken last Saturday). Still, it should be possible to ID and age several species and sub-species in this shot if anyone would like to have a go.

Cheers,

Andy.
 

Attachments

  • Gulls 1.JPG
    Gulls 1.JPG
    188.7 KB · Views: 121
According species and ssp on your last image Andy -
I see perhaps another Caspian (upper left), Yellow-legged (far right), graelsii behind the intermedius, Common Gulls and Black-headed gulls. The one in the upper middle, I wonder about, blank for the moment.

JanJ
 
JANJ said:
According species and ssp on your last image Andy -
I see perhaps another Caspian (upper left), Yellow-legged (far right), graelsii behind the intermedius, Common Gulls and Black-headed gulls. The one in the upper middle, I wonder about, blank for the moment.

JanJ
Click to expand...

Thanks Janj.

Alas, as I suspected, my original image was not worthy of Birdforum and I should not have posted it.

Here are the 'top right' and 'top left' birds again.

I'll dig out another image of the bird that is 'upper middle' but I think it is quite straight forward?

Cheers,

Andy.
 

Attachments

  • Gull .JPG
    Gull .JPG
    79.6 KB · Views: 95
  • 2w.JPG
    2w.JPG
    101.6 KB · Views: 88
  • Gull2.JPG
    Gull2.JPG
    63.5 KB · Views: 103
  • 2w2.JPG
    2w2.JPG
    88 KB · Views: 99
Upper Middle bird:

I haven't sent any more pics into work so I'll post a better shot tonight from home.

However, I reckon these birds are the same species (and age). All have a few brown wing coverts and, perhaps oddly, have quite pronounced white primary tips for this age. Assuming that they are all 3rd summers, of course?

Cheers,

Andy.
 

Attachments

  • g.JPG
    g.JPG
    97.4 KB · Views: 97
  • gu.JPG
    gu.JPG
    167.8 KB · Views: 83
Andy,
I meant the one in the middle preening with a blackish crown facing towards the observer.
But now I see that the last two looks like (3rd summer type YLG,s- notice small mirror on p10, both for YLG & LBBG indicating the age class, lacking all together in some individuals. NOTE: can be difficult to age correctly), if we now presume that the others around are - darker than normal looking in this image - graellsii) the second one in the last post being the same as the one I mentioned as graellsii in post 9.

JanJ

Updated:

http://www.gull-research.org/

And this great image for show - demonstrating how intensivly black michahellis can be in the primaries - notice the broad black markings on p5 and also black markings on p4 although on both webs in one of the wings.

http://forum.waarneming.nl/forum/uploads/post-69-1165784794.jpg
 
Last edited:
Hi all,

Thanks again Janj. There was one intermedius type present last Saturday so it could be the bird in the image.

I thought the mirror looked a bit big for a third year on one or two of these Yellow leggeds. Also, the larger white primary tips would indicate an older bird (if my memory of O&L is correct) and this last feature is supposed to be a better feature of 3rd winter Caspian. Perhaps I shouldn't believe everything that I read! Could these birds be 4th winters (ie, 'near adults')? Or do the few immature type wing coverts and dark marks in the tertials make them 3rd winters?

The pic attached shows the regular male 2nd winter Caspian again. This bird is huge and close to a GBB in size (massive difference between this bird and the female in the initial post). It is also the only bird that I've heard calling. A bizzarre call it is too! Note the second summer Yellow Legged behind it in the pic attached. This Yellow Legged is the same age as the bird in Post 1. Hard to believe!

Cheers,

Andy.
 

Attachments

  • gulls .JPG
    gulls .JPG
    74.5 KB · Views: 93
Your right in that the left one has large white primary tips for a 3-4cy (3rd winter) and maybe it is older (as mentioned sometimes difficult to age)

Edit: notice the white primary tip size - although from October.

http://www.gull-research.org/ylgadsubad/4cyoct/micha5358.htm

http://www.waarneming.nl/foto_details.php?id=84800

http://www.waarneming.nl/foto_details.php?id=84805

The right one seems better for this age, also notice the dark primary coverts, which als can be seen on the left one. According to dark primary coverts indicating age have a look at this:

http://www.gull-research.org/prims/

3cy type Caspian (January)

http://www.xs4all.nl/~daarruud/pictures/DSCN9790.jpg

Presumably the same individual as 4cy type (January)

http://www.xs4all.nl/~daarruud/pictures/DSCN3430.jpg

Notice the size of the white primary tips and tha size of the mirror on p10 on the two age classes in this individual.

Ageing gulls is more difficult than we think, hence the 'type' this or that age.

Compare the individual variation among these 2cy Herrings Gulls and with these 2cy Yellow-legged Gulls:

http://www.gull-research.org/hg/HG2CY10.htm

http://www.gull-research.org/ylg1cy2cy/2cyoct/02cyoct.htm

Caspian call is a 'Laugh'

JanJ
 
Last edited:
Warning! This thread is more than 17 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Similar threads

S
Gull - Lake Geneva, Switzerland
Replies
0
Views
565
SternaParadisaea
S
A
Armenian gulls? Tbilisi, Georgia Oct 2023
Replies
3
Views
628
lou salomon
lou salomon
C
Caspian or Yellow-legged Gull, Teesside UK
Replies
3
Views
718
SteveClifton
S
loiner
Juvenile large gull, West Yorkshire
Replies
5
Views
689
vergan
V
M
Doves, gulls etc. (Canary islands)
Replies
0
Views
391
misikuru
M

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top