• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

"Mystery grey shrike on the isle of Man" (1 Viewer)

Steve, unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your point of view), The Isle of Man is not part of the United Kingdom and is only a 'Crown Dependancy'. There is more that I could bang on about and bore you sh****ss!
I think you'll find though that Magnificent Frigatebird isn't on the British List and we had one here in 1998! And I saw it.
Harry, I take it you're referring to the sparrow in the early 80's in Northern Ireland? That's part of the United Kingdom.
Peteee, get me flight shots!
 
Last edited:
Hi CJW,
No,I was referring to the White-CROWNED Sparrow near Dursey Island last month,which drew quite a few British birders over to tick it!Besides,with regard to your(correct)observation that NI is in the UK,it's NOT part of BRITAIN!
I think,however,that many British twitchers keep a British AND Irish list,which covers NI and the Republic.Not sure how the Isle of Man fits in,though?
I keep an Irish list,including NI and any offshore islands in the Republic or NI.(this is not a political statement on the status of NI,as it refers to the geographical unit of Ireland only!)
At present,I have only ONE species on my Irish list courtesy of seeing it in NI:feral Mandarin at Tollymore,Co.Down(the only tickable population here),but DID dip on a Golden Eagle on Rathlin in Apr.02...
Harry H
 
In all honesty Harry, it's complete bo****ks that Manx birds do not count on the British List. But they don't.
You should ask Manxman about HIS Mourning Dove (he'll take great delight in telling you all about it), that was a first for the Western Pal' but it took one to turn up in the Hebrides last year(?) for it to be admitted to the British List. Go figure.
I don't give a toss, I'm counting it on my British List no matter what 'officialdom' says.
 
Last edited:
As far as I'm concerned, my list covers the British Isles (in which I would be happy to include England, Scotland, Wales, IOM, NI & Eire), lets face it - I need all the help I can get with my list....
Oh yes, that Mourning Dove was very nice indeed, all the way from America without a Russian ship in sight....
 
Hi Manxman,
I don't care,that Mourning Dove was on IOM,not IRELAND...;-)
Also,it was found at a time when I was unaware of such a species!
Harry H
 
All,

there seems to be some confusion (again) about what the British list is and what it represents. The official British List is administered by the British Ornithologists Union who fulfil a requirement of all EU member states to keep a record of the birds recorded in a particular nation. The Isle of Man does not send MP's to parliament and has the power to set its own laws and raise its own taxes. As such the IOM is not part of the United Kingdom but is of course part of the British Isles. The BOU has no jurisdiction over what is merely a sovereign territory, just as it does not over Gibraltar or The Malvinas. The mistake of thinking that the BOU is somehow always in the business of depriving twitchers of ticks is farcical - they have far weightier issues on their minds than deciding whether or not you can tick this or that.

Such decisions (and the exact area(s) an individual wants to keep a list for) are no concern of the BOU.

Retentive listers can devise and maintain as many lists as they want but for these to be of any interest to anyone else they really need to be standardised in some way. Some attempts have been made to do this but their is such widespread disagreement amongst those who have done so that little progress has been made. This is not the fault of the BOU.

Manx birders who want to keep a manx list, or a British and Manx list, or, for that matter a Britain and Ireland list are entirely free to do so. If they can get their friend to agree to the rules than they can take part in competitive listing (for what it's worth). Alternatively they could push for the IOM to become part of Britain, though they'd then be obliged to pay taxes at the same rate as the rest of us - though some of this might go towards the upkeep of the British List via the good offices of the BOU.

MV
 
The Malvinas..... I didnt know the Argies had taken over the FALKLAND ISLANDS (to use their proper name).
And whos being retentive.... There was a good laxative just advertised on the TV if you've got a medical problem??
 
I can never understand why British birders have a British and Irish list. As Eire is a country in its own right it makes about as much sense as having a British and French list. However it's up to the individual what and where they count. No doubt after this weekend they will be many birders with a British,Irish and Isle of Man list. But does it really matter.
Anyway an excellent find and congratulations to you all for sorting it out. This record will no doubt give the Black Lark even more cred', but lets not go down that road again.

Mark
 
I think he's on the payrole of the BOU Manxman. Better be careful if we want the shrike to 'pass' unhindered.........(you know what the dodgy handshake brigade are like!).
 
Ah ! you clearly have your finger on the pulse of birding CJW - perhaps you can explain exactly why the BOU would have anything to do with the alleged steppe Grey Shrike?

MV
 
I would usually explain why the IOM isn't included in the British list Steve, but looking at your entries in the ringing/banding forum you seem uneducated and so probably wouldnt understand...


Try explaining it manxman, I may not be as uneducated as you think?
 
How does the Manx Tourist Board feel about the likely reduced income from fewer UK twitchers coming, if they feel it's not right to tick Manx birds on their UK list?

Michael
 
Don't be daft Michael!
Malvolio, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit and the sign of a weak mind. Evidently I need to explain: I was making a tongue in cheek remark hinting at that perhaps a nod and a wink in the right direction from someone inside the BOU might reduce the chances of the 'alleged' steppe Grey Shrike of being accepted - hence the reference to the 'dodgy handshake brigade. Sorry, perhaps it was too subtle for you. Nice use of the word 'alleged' by the way, but you didn't really think I'd bite at that little morsel did you?
I think this thread is getting away from my original intent which was to get some constructive feedback about the identification of a beautiful bird.
 
Last edited:
CJW,
To state that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit is to be guilty of the crassest of cliches. sarcasm is a subspecies of irony any that is obviously a higher form of wit - otherwise Americans would get it. BTW who was it who originally took this thread in the direction which led us here, methinks it was you when you originally referred to the birds tickability by Brits.
If the shrike is acceptable it will be acceptable on its merits and irrespective of your paranoia. To draw on authorities (eminent birders) in support of your provisional identification and then to castigate authorities (BOU) a few posts later is a sign of a weak and confused mind.

MV
 
Now now boys...... is this fisticuffs (or should I say handbags) at forty paces!

Personally I would be interested in facts such as -

1. Is the bird still there?

2. Is anybody travelling to see it who is knowledgeable on the species

3. How much is a ferry ticket to the Isle of man?

4. How much is a pint over there B :)

5. Why is steve Uneducated ?
 
Last edited:
Sorry Steve! I'll bite my tongue. Again.
1.The bird was there until dusk.
2. All (but one) would be welcome.
3. I think a return foot passenger is £38 or so from Heysham
4. Bitter is about £1.75
5. I doubt it very much.
 
"3. I think a return foot passenger is £38 or so from Heysham"
How far to walk from Douglas (if that's where the ship lands) to the shrike?

"4. Bitter is about £1.75"
What's the UK Pound / Manx Pound exchange rate, and do your banks make a £40 charge for changing £1.75 into another currency, like ours do??

Not that I'll be able to get across anyway, can't afford the ferry price :-(

Michael
 
Warning! This thread is more than 21 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top