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Old Saturday 11th March 2017, 19:23   #176
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Scott Pruitt--hard to imagine a more disastrous choice for EPA administrator. . .!

http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-da...change-reality
Well, disastrous if the EPA is supposed to work as it should. But, if you want to make money regardless of the costs to the environment and people's health, the perfect choice. Given Trump's stated policies during the campaign, none of this is surprising, it's evident that he wants to run the USA like a business with as few regulations as possible along with a big push to use fossil fuels. It seems that to Trump, the position for fossil fuels is why not? After all, the country can have more jobs, make more money, etc.

This view of course ignores the thousands of scientific studies that show why we shouldn't be using more fossil fuels as well the importance and patriotism associated with sustainable caretaking of our natural heritage (hence why some of us are not very happy with what the admin. is doing).

I appreciate you posting updates of the actions and decisions made by Trump. Let's work on solutions so we can hopefully limit the degradation and destruction that the current administration and its political and monied supporters will accomplish. Or, we could just sit back and let unscrupulous people in power gamble with our future, our friends, family, my two year old neighbor, and my eight year old daughter.
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Old Tuesday 14th March 2017, 02:52   #177
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Yet more on the developing Bannon story. . .. Now that he's (presumably) feeling better maybe he'll moderate his views on burning the government down. Or maybe not. . ..

http://www.theonion.com/graphic/bann...ruptures-55512
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Old Friday 17th March 2017, 20:00   #178
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Silver lining department--

http://www.theonion.com/article/stud...billions-37043
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Old Wednesday 22nd March 2017, 00:37   #179
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No comment department--
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/21/c...ore-ipad-share

(tap "skip deals" button to get to the article)
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Old Wednesday 22nd March 2017, 17:53   #180
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No comment department--
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/21/c...ore-ipad-share

(tap "skip deals" button to get to the article)
...and a Republican lawmaker assigned God as the cause of Chesapeake Bay pollution!

http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/03...rry_epa_e.html

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Old Thursday 23rd March 2017, 10:35   #181
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Now the senate has passed a bill allowing killing of hibernating bears, etc
https://www.thedodo.com/bear-wolf-al...324704518.html
I find it hard to see how anyone with a genuine regard for wildlife could vote for people capable of allowing such barbaric behaviour
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Old Sunday 26th March 2017, 00:55   #182
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Now the senate has passed a bill allowing killing of hibernating bears, etc
https://www.thedodo.com/bear-wolf-al...324704518.html
I find it hard to see how anyone with a genuine regard for wildlife could vote for people capable of allowing such barbaric behaviour
Indeed. An appalling bill even for the Trumpocene.
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Old Monday 3rd April 2017, 18:46   #183
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Trump vs the earth--
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...mp-v-the-earth
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Old Wednesday 5th April 2017, 13:04   #184
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This is what happens when for many years the ruling class doesn't bother explaining to the voters why environment protection makes sense.
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Old Wednesday 5th April 2017, 15:22   #185
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This is what happens when for many years the ruling class doesn't bother explaining to the voters why environment protection makes sense.
You can blame the Democrat side for this - the political elite - too good (and/or too smart) for the hoi poloi. This is what happens when some of the voters set themselves up as a ruling class and believe that they are a ruling class - not voters .... "It was a pig walking on his hind legs"

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others

Trump's blinkered headlong descent to who knows where is starting to make this lot look like altruistic saints.

I wonder if they can step down off the podium (and the big fat gravy train), learn for the first time what fiscal responsibility actually is, take a good long hard look at themselves, and pull together a viable, credible alternative (one that might even engage some of the 90 million great unwashed to get their confidence and vote) that is actually electable? Time is ticking ....


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Old Thursday 6th April 2017, 02:07   #186
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This is what happens when for many years the ruling class doesn't bother explaining to the voters why environment protection makes sense.
Clueless.
No, this is what happens when orgs like the EPA, NPS and others treat everyday Americans like criminals. Like unions, those orgs started out with very best intentions serving the American people, but have long since been out of control.
The vast majority of Americans treasure our environment and wild places, but collectively we've given the middle finger to these bureaucrats with their nazi-like overreach.

Good riddance...
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Old Thursday 6th April 2017, 02:15   #187
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Clueless.
No, this is what happens when orgs like the EPA, NPS and others treat everyday Americans like criminals. Like unions, those orgs started out with very best intentions serving the American people, but have long since been out of control.
The vast majority of Americans treasure our environment and wild places, but collectively we've given the middle finger to these bureaucrats with their nazi-like overreach.

Good riddance...
The trouble is, way too many babies being thrown out with the bath water ....


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Old Thursday 6th April 2017, 02:27   #188
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Clueless.
No, this is what happens when orgs like the EPA, NPS and others treat everyday Americans like criminals. Like unions, those orgs started out with very best intentions serving the American people, but have long since been out of control.
The vast majority of Americans treasure our environment and wild places, but collectively we've given the middle finger to these bureaucrats with their nazi-like overreach.

Good riddance...
Aww, sounds like somebody's got his knuckles rapped for polluting water sources or illegally running cattle on public lands. Don't worry, with Uncle Dumbo in charge you're now free to resume trashing the environment all you like.
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Old Thursday 6th April 2017, 02:52   #189
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You can blame the Democrat side for this - the political elite - too good (and/or too smart) for the hoi poloi. This is what happens when some of the voters set themselves up as a ruling class and believe that they are a ruling class - not voters .... "It was a pig walking on his hind legs"

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others

Trump's blinkered headlong descent to who knows where is starting to make this lot look like altruistic saints.

I wonder if they can step down off the podium (and the big fat gravy train), learn for the first time what fiscal responsibility actually is, take a good long hard look at themselves, and pull together a viable, credible alternative (one that might even engage some of the 90 million great unwashed to get their confidence and vote) that is actually electable? Time is ticking ....
I find it very hard to make any sense at all of this hodgepodge in the present context--
Fiscal irresponsibility??
Gravy train??
Get off the podium??

The Democrats 'lost' because of the massive defection of their traditional white working class base which happened for a variety of reasons. Dissatisfaction with Obama's environmental policies was one of these certainly but by no means the most important. Looming as large or larger were a whole host of other issues: "immigration", particularly from Mexico; worries about Islamic terrorism; disquiet over social changes (gay marriage, etc, etc, etc.); concern over demographics (growth of non-whites as a percentage of the population); various economic factors (de-unionization, job insecurity, declining employment opportunities for those--men particularly--without college degrees). Everybody in the party leadership is cognizant of these problems and is working on ways to bring the disaffected elements back into the fold. The strong likelihood that Trump will continue to betray his base in favor of family interests and the monied establishment should be a big help in this. [He certainly gave it his best not long ago in his failed attempt to deprive millions of his supporters of their health insurance].

In the meantime, we live with the prospect of a stare-down between an insecure, unfit American president with zero impulse control, and the pudgy little monster running North Korea, each with his index finger on a nuclear button.
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Old Thursday 6th April 2017, 04:27   #190
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The trouble is, way too many babies being thrown out with the bath water ...
Chosun
The agencies had merit, Juan. They just forgot what their mission was, and who they served.

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Aww, sounds like somebody's got his knuckles rapped for polluting water sources or illegally running cattle on public lands. Don't worry, with Uncle Dumbo in charge you're now free to resume trashing the environment all you like.
Wow, ridiculous speculation much?

Reads like some major butthurt about these bureaucrats getting clipped.
Get over it.
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Old Thursday 6th April 2017, 06:20   #191
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I find it very hard to make any sense of this hodgepodge in the present context--
Fiscal irresponsibility??
Gravy train??
Get off the podium??

The Democrats 'lost' because of the massive defection of their traditional white working class base which happened for a variety of reasons. Dissatisfaction with Obama's environmental policies was one of these certainly but by no means the most important. Looming as large or larger were a whole host of other issues: "immigration", particularly from Mexico; worries about Islamic terrorism; disquiet over social changes (gay marriage, etc, etc, etc.); concern over demographics (growth of non-whites as a percentage of the population); various economic factors (de-unionization, job insecurity, declining employment opportunities for those--men particularly--without college degrees). Everybody in the party leadership is cognizant of these problems and is working on ways to bring the disaffected elements back into the fold. The strong likelihood that Trump will continue to betray his base in favor of family interests and the monied establishment should be a big help in this. [He certainly gave it his best not long ago in his failed attempt to deprive millions of his supporters of their health insurance].

In the meantime, we live with the prospect of a stare-down between an insecure, unfit American president with zero impulse control, and the pudgy little monster running North Korea, each with his index finger on a nuclear button.
While seeking to bring several million voters back into the fold is admirable, and yes, agree, there should be an even greater number of disillusioned Trump voters available, there are still some ~90million potential voters who for one reason or another didn't vote. Why? Who are they? and what do they want? https://www.theguardian.com/news/dat...s-demographics

The Democrats didn't just lose for the reasons you listed. The Democrats also 'lost' because of the Democrats themselves. Politicians of all persuasions have disenfranchised themselves from the electorate. When politicians grant themselves allowances, questionable expenses, above average pay and conditions and increases, indulgent retirement and superannuation benefits, when they set themselves as a class apart, then of course anger in the electorate builds. This is not surprising since all sides inevitably report to the financial masters who really pull the strings in the world. It's only a rort if you're not in on it!

The pigs have moved into the farmhouse and they're walking on their hind legs ..... The other 'lowly' animals, no matter how overworked, constrained and oppressed aren't going to stand for it. We recently had one muppet (now thankfully gone) who decided that she would fly interstate on the taxpayer's coin to by an investment property. Of course no real reform came of it - just the usual shuffling of the deck chairs on the Titanic.

It can't just be a perpetual choice between the lesser of two evils. It's time for a new paradigm, genuine government for the people by the people, not parties, and various other masters.

Imagine if politicians were paid say the average full time wage and conditions, and then as in the commercial world, maybe had another 0-100% available as a bonus subject to achievement of say half a dozen public living standard, fiscal responsibility, global good, and environmental standard, metrics being met. !!! I would bet pounds to pence on better government.

In this country, we've been through the left's (our Labour party = your Democrats) disastrous administration with Kevin 07. He said he was a leader, not a politician. He was not. He said he was a fiscal conservative. He was not. He blew an inherited government surplus and parlayed it into getting on now for half a trillion dollars worth of debt. Big fat inefficient government and built in recurrent spending - it seems to be the bane of left leaning governments the world over. The US now has a debt that even superman would have difficulty leaping over .....

Never mind the first 100 days, Trump with his wholesale Environmental regulation repeals is indeed setting the bar very low (though not quite Putin low as other recent events are sadly showing), but potential alternatives are going to need so much more than that. Additionally there'll be all those environmental babies to recover and revive.

One of the shining lights in the rust belt demographic is the Mid West 'wind belt' Industry - I saw a documentary the other day (Vice origin I think) where there was actual footage of Trump speaking at some event and heaping disdain on Wind Power. His economics can no longer be dismissed as merely just blunt, or illogical - it's entirely ignorant. A paper tiger. The Emperor has no clothes.

He's had his chance. He's blowing it. It's just a matter of time now before his supporters wake up, let's just hope he doesn't sink to a worldwide calamity to distract the populace. I agree, the North Korea situation has been, and still is, an increasing concern. Despite Trump's open admiration of Putin's oligarchal model, at least in recent days he finally seems to have found his line in the sand of differentiation with him.


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Old Thursday 6th April 2017, 11:44   #192
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IIRC, the new EPA budget pretty much completely slashes any and all funding to help explore renewable resources like wind. Looks like we are, at least for the next 4 (8!!?) years ceding technological development of those areas to China.

Also there are plenty of reasons why Trump won and Hillary lost. Lets not forget that Hillary was a really poor candidate, with multiple decades of the opposing party building her up as the devil incarnate, and who also had an active effort to undermine her by foreign actors. Things like the DNC leaks cut out a lot of her support from the left. Plus the Democrats just had a crap campaign last season, refusing to put much effort in many of the blue wall states which even I, a non-politician, worried were in play.
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Old Thursday 6th April 2017, 14:44   #193
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It can't just be a perpetual choice between the lesser of two evils. It's time for a new paradigm, genuine government for the people by the people, not parties, and various other masters.
How do you see this being accomplished? Not, I hope, by a 'populist' leader, a man on horseback? I had the distinct impression that during the runup to the election you saw Trump himself in this role (though no longer obviously!).

Re budget deficits. Many economists consider these a good thing in the case of successful first-world economies--stimulating trade and foreign investment--as long as they're not too large. And they don't consider the current US deficit (I can't speak to the Australian) all that large.
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Old Thursday 6th April 2017, 14:59   #194
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IIRC, the new EPA budget pretty much completely slashes any and all funding to help explore renewable resources like wind. Looks like we are, at least for the next 4 (8!!?) years ceding technological development of those areas to China.

Also there are plenty of reasons why Trump won and Hillary lost. Lets not forget that Hillary was a really poor candidate, with multiple decades of the opposing party building her up as the devil incarnate, and who also had an active effort to undermine her by foreign actors. Things like the DNC leaks cut out a lot of her support from the left. Plus the Democrats just had a crap campaign last season, refusing to put much effort in many of the blue wall states which even I, a non-politician, worried were in play.
Agreed, important contributory factors all, and more than one of which given the closeness of the vote probably sufficient on its its own to have tipped the balance in favor of the enemy.
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Old Thursday 6th April 2017, 17:07   #195
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IIRC, the new EPA budget pretty much completely slashes any and all funding to help explore renewable resources like wind. Looks like we are, at least for the next 4 (8!!?) years ceding technological development of those areas to China.

Also there are plenty of reasons why Trump won and Hillary lost. Lets not forget that Hillary was a really poor candidate, with multiple decades of the opposing party building her up as the devil incarnate, and who also had an active effort to undermine her by foreign actors. Things like the DNC leaks cut out a lot of her support from the left. Plus the Democrats just had a crap campaign last season, refusing to put much effort in many of the blue wall states which even I, a non-politician, worried were in play.
I'll await that list of "foreign actors" when you get the chance to share...salient proof please, *verifiable* information.

Hillary was a joke, and the media was proven to be just as big a joke with their collusion and lies. Donna Brazile just finally came forth and admitted she lied by colluding with CNN to provide Hillary with debate questions, this after her constant lies for weeks about this during the campaign. Be still my beating heart, a progressive liberal just admitted lying to everyone.

These scumbags own this election result. Thank God for wikileaks--DNC snakes unmasked.
I really don't care if Trump lasts four years or eight, as long as he gets a couple more SCOTUS picks beyond Gorsuch's confirmation, I'm a happy camper.
The Supremes are where it is at with rogue leftist judges constantly legislating from the bench and rewriting law rather than constitutionally interpreting it.
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Old Thursday 6th April 2017, 20:34   #196
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Wow, ridiculous speculation much?
What a hypocritical weasel-worded response! It's understandable you don't want to fess up but I would have thought you'd at least have had the guts to try and lie your way out!
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Old Friday 7th April 2017, 01:07   #197
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What a hypocritical weasel-worded response! It's understandable you don't want to fess up but I would have thought you'd at least have had the guts to try and lie your way out!
lol...
Fess up...about what? Something you just conjured up about me and cattle use on public lands? Moronic (but funny!)
Get out and live your life, man; and actually do something for the environment. Your endless whining here is tiresome.
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Old Friday 7th April 2017, 07:48   #198
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This is what happens when for many years the ruling class doesn't bother explaining to the voters why environment protection makes sense.
I think it's also a case of short-termism which is endemic across all parties and classes. It seems particularly acute, though, amongst those on the right who disdain to listen to all and any experts on these matters and whose prejudices are carefully nurtured by propaganda from those with a financial motive to allow pollution and over-exploitation. It's really not too hard for voters to inform themselves about why environment protection makes sense but the process is made less straight forward by deliberate misinformation from various groups with a political/financial motivation. Whilst politicians are heavily funded by polluting industries then this is the inevitable outcome.
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Old Friday 7th April 2017, 16:59   #199
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I think it's also a case of short-termism which is endemic across all parties and classes. It seems particularly acute, though, amongst those on the right who disdain to listen to all and any experts on these matters and whose prejudices are carefully nurtured by propaganda from those with a financial motive to allow pollution and over-exploitation. It's really not too hard for voters to inform themselves about why environment protection makes sense but the process is made less straight forward by deliberate misinformation from various groups with a political/financial motivation. Whilst politicians are heavily funded by polluting industries then this is the inevitable outcome.
That may be true with some, but not all John. People on 'the right' have kids that deal with asthma and other issues and they are acutely aware of what is necessary with a clean, wholesome environment. It directly affects their lives.
Detroit has long been a leftist stronghold, but the city is essentially a poisoned cesspool.
This is about balance...the careful use, but not abuse of our resources.
If a coal plant is spewing filth it should be shut down. If it is properly equipped with modern scrubbers to allow use without excessive pollution, use it but monitor it.
If a mine is poisoning creeks or watersheds, by all means close it! And levy heavy fines. These were areas the EPA had merit, but when they started harassing people because they wanted to develop their property and the EPA forbade it due to some man-made puddle they deemed 'wetlands,' the situation clearly got out of control. This actually happened here in Idaho. The couple was being fined $50K a day whilst they worked near the watershed. The same story can be related for many other places.
An agency run amok...
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Old Friday 7th April 2017, 17:19   #200
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Originally Posted by John Cantelo View Post
I think it's also a case of short-termism which is endemic across all parties and classes. It seems particularly acute, though, amongst those on the right who disdain to listen to all and any experts on these matters and whose prejudices are carefully nurtured by propaganda from those with a financial motive to allow pollution and over-exploitation. It's really not too hard for voters to inform themselves about why environment protection makes sense but the process is made less straight forward by deliberate misinformation from various groups with a political/financial motivation. Whilst politicians are heavily funded by polluting industries then this is the inevitable outcome.
Indeed, in a nutshell! The propaganda's especially effective in times like these of boiling resentments on the part of important elements of the electorate over other things, economic insecurity and various unwelcome social changes in particular. In this context, "environmentalism" is easily pitched to these resentments as just another example of the contempt of urban elites for traditional ways of life out there in the "real" America.
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