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What Newt? Surrey, UK Aug 17 (1 Viewer)

MTem

MTem

Well-known member
Is this an Alpine Newt? (photo 1 & 2)

I found it when moving a pile of stacked wood partitions in my field quite close to two ponds - one (ancient) in mixed woodland the other (new in 2016) out in the field.

The new one held many (tens) of newt 'tadpoles' (photo 3 & 4) that I tentatively ID'd as Smooth/Palmate earlier in the summer that have not been evident for some time.

Complete novice at amphibians so ANY help is appreciated!

Mick
 

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I think the clue is in the name Mick, Alpine!

I've only seen it in the mountains of Serbia.

Sorry I can't confirm ID without my books but it won't be Alpine in Surrey unless they've been introduced which I doubt?


A
 
andyadcock said:
I think the clue is in the name Mick, Alpine!

I've only seen it in the mountains of Serbia.

Sorry I can't confirm ID without my books but it won't be Alpine in Surrey unless they've been introduced which I doubt?


A
Click to expand...

I'm afraid you're wrong- there are populations of Alpine Newts in Surrey- introduced, yes but they are there.
 
aeshna5 said:
I'm afraid you're wrong- there are populations of Alpine Newts in Surrey- introduced, yes but they are there.
Click to expand...

Humble apologies Mick, 'schooled' as the Americans would say!

Lucky I didn't add one of those patronising, smily's or thumbs up as well!

They must have adapted to the warmer, lower climate so why don't they extend their altitudinal range in Europe, or have they?

Now I think about it, wasn't there a thread about hybrids in the UK recently?




A
 
I opted for it having done a Google search and seen there were populations in Surrey, and that it seemed to be the only UK newt option with a plain (unspotted) orange belly and throat.
I wasn't sure if it was full grown though, and if GCN or others looked like this when not yet fully mature.

Anyway - what do we think it is?
And what about the others - are they smooth/palmate (I read they are indistinguishable at this age)
 
andyadcock said:
Humble apologies Mick, 'schooled' as the Americans would say!

Lucky I didn't add one of those patronising, smily's or thumbs up as well!

They must have adapted to the warmer, lower climate so why don't they extend their altitudinal range in Europe, or have they?

Now I think about it, wasn't there a thread about hybrids in the UK recently?




A
Click to expand...

Just had a look in my 2001 Amphibians + Reptiles of Surrey + it doesn't mention hybrids with Alpine Newts (not saying they don't occur) but Surrey also has Italian Crested Newts which certainly do hybridise with Great Crested.

Also in the past Surrey has had small populations of Common Tree Frog, Yellow-bellied Toad, Marbled Newt + Fire Salamander but most if not all of these are now gone. A whole array of Pelophylax water frogs!
 
All very interesting (a serious, not a sarcastic comment), as I had no idea of the range of non-native amphibians to be considered ..... but what do we think this one is?
And if it is an Alpine newt is there any recorder or body that I should report it to?
 
I really can't see what else it can be? As far as what to do about it - this sentence in the herpetofauna page caught my eye
" It is not thought to currently pose a threat to our native herpetofauna."

The word currently is what worries me - maybe the population is so small and restricted they don't consider it an issue? Surely it can't hurt to report it to the Surrey herpetofauna group though.

Cheers

Phil
 
I have registered at the site you linked to above (herpetofauna.co.uk), Phil, and am awaiting confirmation and advice. I will try to find out how close the nearest known colony is - my pond is pretty isolated apart from the adjacent ancient dewpond, but I hear these little beggars can travel long distances.
Interesting nonetheless
Mick
 
aeshna5 said:
Just had a look in my 2001 Amphibians + Reptiles of Surrey + it doesn't mention hybrids with Alpine Newts (not saying they don't occur) but Surrey also has Italian Crested Newts which certainly do hybridise with Great Crested.

Also in the past Surrey has had small populations of Common Tree Frog, Yellow-bellied Toad, Marbled Newt + Fire Salamander but most if not all of these are now gone. A whole array of Pelophylax water frogs!
Click to expand...


It was Smooth x Palmate that was posted here as a potential hybrid which do exist it seems.



A
 
Last edited:
Just to round this off it has been confirmed as an Alpine newt, and the tadpole likely so as well. It seems back in the 1930's there was an exotic reptile and amphibian breeding station just a mile north of this location (Beam Brook), and that many exotics escaped, and some persist to today - Alpine newt being one of them. Seems they don't travel far or quickly, and pose no proven threat to native populations.

https://waicblog.wordpress.com/2015...atic-and-reptile-dealers-in-the-20th-century/

Who'd have thought it!

Mick
 
Last edited:
MTem said:
Just to round this off it has been confirmed as an Alpine newt, and the tadpole likely so as well. It seems back in the 1930's there was an exotic reptile and amphibian breeding station just a mile north of this location (Beam Brook), and that many exotics escaped, and some persist to today - Alpine newt being one of them. Seems they don't travel far or quickly, and pose no proven threat to native populations.

https://waicblog.wordpress.com/2015...atic-and-reptile-dealers-in-the-20th-century/

Who'd have thought it!

Mick
Click to expand...

Thanks for that Mick,
as I said before, it's interesting that they have adapted, seemingly quite easily to thrive in lower, warmer conditions in the UK.


A
 
Last edited:
Thanks Mick

An interesting look at the history of the site. Who knows what other surprises might be lurking there!

Sounds like a nice place you've got there by the way :t:

Cheers

Phil
 
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