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Ruddy Duck cull continuing (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter PeeJay
- Start date
Adam W
Well-known member
One of the most sensible things I've seen posted on here,If only more people realised just how true this is.
John Cantelo
Well-known member
I wasn't trying to upset you, Arnie, but asking, within the context of your posts on this matter, what I felt to be a perfectly reasonable question about your ethical stand vis a vis the deliberate release of Mink. I sought clarification and not villification.
Unfortunately, nobody here has advocated foxhunting or clubbing seals so that you could witness the level of vitriol I would subsequently direct toward them. Yes, you are having a 'hard time' here because your stance runs counter to that of the majority and is, at times, expressed in a way that makes a clear understanding of your argument problematical. It certainly doesn't help your cause by being mildly abusive ("T**rts") however much you feel aggrieved,
Robin Edwards
Well-known member
Farnboro John is right of course Adam but that then doesn't preclude that Conservation is about not-being nice to animals - and I know this is not what you said 
. I use the word "nice" with some reseravtions as it's a fluffy-bunny term which is out of context in my opinion to this debate.
We see all too-many situations where the term Conservation is used as an excuse to meet the desires of weak men including big game trophy hunting.
Without wanting to get too controversial, I think our own Royal family are pro-conservation despite alleged controlling of BoP to protect game.
I'm of the opinion that our UK organisations such as RSPB & Wildlife Trust get the balance right most of the time which is why I'm a supporter of the need to control RD in the UK. That's not to say I am supportive of how the cull has been carried out in all instances though.
. I use the word "nice" with some reseravtions as it's a fluffy-bunny term which is out of context in my opinion to this debate.We see all too-many situations where the term Conservation is used as an excuse to meet the desires of weak men including big game trophy hunting.
Without wanting to get too controversial, I think our own Royal family are pro-conservation despite alleged controlling of BoP to protect game.
I'm of the opinion that our UK organisations such as RSPB & Wildlife Trust get the balance right most of the time which is why I'm a supporter of the need to control RD in the UK. That's not to say I am supportive of how the cull has been carried out in all instances though.
Robin Edwards
Well-known member
Arnie - it's regretful that you feel agrieved and offended but may I suggest that you take the time to read through this thread including your own contribution and ask yourself calmly why you think others have responded as they have?
I think I am right in saying that you are the only one who has decided to become abusive.
arniemonkey
Well-known member
thats how ya do it....hard to disagree flamborojohn...
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arniemonkey
Well-known member
I can't believe you called us all twits!
it was twichers ..but you know me and my spelling etc etc
arniemonkey
Well-known member
i think suggesting i was an animal activist and calling me a loon .might be taken as abusive too.....i was annoyed at the flack i was getting ,in a better mood today yellowthroat tick! but slightly dampened by the £100 petrol costs ...jeez birdings more expensive than polo.....
BirdBoyBen
Young birder
its expected that no one agrees about this subject, but do we seriously need abuse? this is birdforum, people. I personally believe that individual species are not important-it should be the organisms that thrive rather then being shot. however, i do understand that ruddies where introduced to the uk and culling shouldn't damage their native population.
as for minks (why is this always the topic brought up?), although i generally dont agree with killing animals that cause no physical harm, when minks ruthlessly slaughter ducklings every year i think that although unpleasant, eradicating them is necessary-they're not meant to be here.
as for minks (why is this always the topic brought up?), although i generally dont agree with killing animals that cause no physical harm, when minks ruthlessly slaughter ducklings every year i think that although unpleasant, eradicating them is necessary-they're not meant to be here.
Andrew Rowlands
Well-known member
The minty sweets with a hole in the middle, yes.
If you're gonna twitch then you gotta pay the price mate.
Birding is only more expensive than polo when you have a car that guzzles fuel and you don't car-share.
knotsbirder
Well-known member
Lucky you! It looks a stunner! RE: The "loon" comment. I apologise, however I was getting frustrated by your confrotational attitude (ie using language such as "b******s"). I did not understand that it upset you as deeply as it did, and I am sincerely sorry for this. Lets let this be the end of it. I might even be able to join you in a Yellowthroat tick soon! 8-P
Sam :t:
arniemonkey
Well-known member
ok sam..the b ***rds was refering to foxhunters etc you ll see if you re read , end of arguing ...and to keith..i was having a bit of a laugh .....
Farnboro John
Well-known member
That's Farnborough!...... I can't believe you've just implied I might be a Yorkshireman..... goes off in a huff....
John
Most Greater Manchester birders were full of rage at seeing DEFRA turn our local reserves into a shooting gallery in 2008 so the whereabouts of the few surviving Ruddy Ducks are suppressed like they were breeding Goshawks. I mean, I'm sure the local population of Ruddies which sat on the lakes day after day were suddenly going to up and migrate thousands of miles to try and interbreed with another species.
There's millions of unemployed Spaniards, why not give them all guns and big pictures of what a Ruddy Ruck looks like and have them patrol their wetland areas incessantly on the off chance a Ruddy makes it there.
There's millions of unemployed Spaniards, why not give them all guns and big pictures of what a Ruddy Ruck looks like and have them patrol their wetland areas incessantly on the off chance a Ruddy makes it there.
John Cantelo
Well-known member
The lack of understanding illustrated by this post is, frankly, jaw dropping. I don't suppose that those who accidentally kicked off this problem by allowing free flying Ruddies to escape had any idea of the problems this would later cause. Today we don't have that excuse. Should this remnant population be allowed to prosper then there's no reason to suppose that we won't face the same dilema a few decades down the line. The facetious comment about Ruddies 'suddenly going to up and migrate thousands of miles (sic)' shows a woeful ignorance of past history. By all means oppose the cull on ethical grounds, but let's not pretend that there's not a problem. The final comment vis a vis unemployed Spaniards is as patronising as it is crass.
With apologies in advance for the intemporate nature of this posting (too much vino!),
So you're suggesting that the hybrid ducks in Spain are the result of male ruddies flying across from America, while the UK population which has quite happily spread to the Netherlands and France isn't able to reach Spain? Wow, that's a pretty amazing scientific discovery, which overturns everything we know about ruddy ducks. Or alternatively, perhaps you don't actually know what you're talking about?
As John said, people who don't think conservation of white headed duck as a species is important and who care about animal rights will of course be opposed to culling. I might disagree with them, but it's not an irrational position. But if you're simply going to insist that the scientific evidence is all wrong then you need to produce some actual evidence.
Though the principle of culling might be the correct one, and indeed in some cases obviously is, and I hope the relevant bodies have truly done all the background studies, I still have yet to see evidence which persuaded me in the case of Ruddy Duck. Nobody on this thread has been able to answer any of the questions I think are important posted earlier, other than to say hybrids have occurred.
There are numerous cases of hybrids occurring between two species without it resulting in the extinction of one, there are numerous cases of a male courting a female of another species in cases driving out a local male of the other species. So the simple case of hybrids occurring does not necessarily mean it is a problem, I would think it more an issue regarding the absolute frequency it occurs, particularly given the vastly higher population of White-headed Ducks today.
In reply to the above two posts, it could be considered jaw dropping that nobody is actually able to answer the earlier questions, yet everybody is still so sure they are correct. And to the second quote, please point me to the scientific evidence that answers the questions posed (a genuine request).
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Adam W
Well-known member
Fair point Jos but is there actually a need to or would it be right to wait until we have solid evidence(we might already I dont know) that this is a big problem by which time it could be too late?
Is it not better to see that there is at least the obvious potential for a problem which I'm sure we'd all agree there is so then not take the risk of it becoming a problem?
As I've said before prevetion is better than cure especially if its too late for the cure to work.
While there may not be hard evidence as such that British Ruddies are actually causing a significant problem with Spanish white Headed Ducks at present I dont think anyone can deny the fact that Ruddies will breed with White Heads(hybrids that exist must proove that?) and nobody can deny that British Ruddies could get to Spain even if there isnt proof that they have yet though wouldnt the hybrids be proof of that too?
So in my opinion at least there's more than enough potential for a problem that it makes sense to act now instead of living to regret not acting just for the sake of the poor Ruddies that shouldnt be here anyway.
Is it not better to see that there is at least the obvious potential for a problem which I'm sure we'd all agree there is so then not take the risk of it becoming a problem?
As I've said before prevetion is better than cure especially if its too late for the cure to work.
While there may not be hard evidence as such that British Ruddies are actually causing a significant problem with Spanish white Headed Ducks at present I dont think anyone can deny the fact that Ruddies will breed with White Heads(hybrids that exist must proove that?) and nobody can deny that British Ruddies could get to Spain even if there isnt proof that they have yet though wouldnt the hybrids be proof of that too?
So in my opinion at least there's more than enough potential for a problem that it makes sense to act now instead of living to regret not acting just for the sake of the poor Ruddies that shouldnt be here anyway.
