Ruddy Duck cull (1 Viewer)

A report leaked to the BBC very late on Friday evening 28/02/2003.

The House of Commons is to be told on Monday that the Government have decided to cull the entire population of the UK's Ruddy Duck, as it poses a threat to the Spanish White Headed Duck.

I know this has been kicking around for some time, but in my eyes to kill off the entire population seems crazy and insane, does that mean that Wardens on nature reserves will also have to kill them too !!!!

Would like to hear your opions on this subject that will anger and upset a good many people, watch your papers over the weekend.....



A very angry Kingfisher

I think to cull is wrong too. But I do think that it is important to protect the white-headed duck (having just seen them in Spain). I am no expert but I feel there must be another way to do this.

I think it would have been better if this species had never got into the wild in the first place.

Robin

Although sad. I too think it is necessary.

Peter Scott did a lot of good things but releasing Ruddy Duck wasn't one of them.

Wardens on Reserves already control some species, but I would imagine this will be carried out by Government contractors.

I feel very incensed over this issue and totally disagree with the cull.

Whilst perhaps the Ruddy Duck should not have been introduced over here, it may very well have eventually found it's way in any case. Plenty of other species from the USA have made it over the Pond by themselves.

The main point to me is that whilst they may have artificially reached this country in the first place, they have now formed a well established breeding population and are a recognised UK species. The White Headed Duck isn't even a UK species. Why should a thriving population of an obviously strong genetic UK species be eradicated to protect a weaker species from another country thousands of miles away ?

Now that they are here Nature should be left to take it's course - survival of the fittest. If measures want to be taken in Spain to preserve the strain then so be it. To eradicate the UK population seems Conservation gone daft !

I can't see them culling the lot it would be too drastic a measure, but I do feel that in oreder to protect the White headed duck some culling is needed.

I think that possibly for the first time I am finding that I actually disagree with Ian.

Whilst I can't fully justify the cull in my own mind I can understand the reasons behind it. Ruddy Ducks are one of my favourite ducks, in fact possibly one of my favourite birds. They a real characters. Who can't get turned onto their charm when they start that bill slapping display of theirs, but no introduced species should be treated the same as resident birds unless they fit in without disturbing the balance of nature. Sure, Ruddy Ducks could possibly fly over here, but a pair flying together and settling down, I don't think so.

The White headed duck is in danger of becoming extinct due to the integration of both species therefore we must do our utmost in protecting this species. If that means a cull then so be it but I can't believe that a total cull is the answer. For a start what are the French and Spanish authorities doing with their Ruddy Duck populations. I would have thought that culling all Ruddy Ducks over there would be a start. That way when the cull over here is started in earnest the flow of migrating birds across to Europe would be minimised to such an extent that their integration would be minimised also.

I think that a limited cull should be tried (unfortunately it would still have to be a large cull).

Having said all that I feel that a total cull is unworkable because I can imagine that some sites would not allow such a kill to go on. There are a few club managed waters that have Ruddy Ducks on them that totally abhor the thought of killing off this species.

Let us not forget what damage the Grey Squirrel has done to the Red Squirrel population, not through integration but challenging for the same food more proficiently.

If we are to care about the birds we see then we also have to put entire species that are in trouble at the top of our protection list. Ruddy Ducks are an American duck and they are plentiful over there and not in danger. White headed ducks are from our area and they are in trouble. Can we continue to bury our heads over this issue. It won't go away until the White headed duck is extinct and then you will all hold your hands up in the air and say "I didn't think it was that serious". Well it is. The W.H Duck, if my info is correct, is possibly down to a 1,000 pairs. That isn't just serious, it is a tragedy that we have to reverse, NOW, not later.

If you don't want the cull then let's hear the alternatives you think can work, NOW. I have emphasised now as time isn't just running out, it has virtually run out.

My point is that the Ruddy Duck is an established UK species and has been for over 30 years ! White headed Ducks never have been a UK species. I'm all for conservation, but I firmly believe it should start at home. We should be protecting UK species first. No one can claim that Ruddy Duck are just an introduced species, they have been here too long.

If a cull is required, then it should be carried out in Spain in the areas that are under threat in the breeding season - not thousands of miles away in the UK. The idea is absolutely ridiculous.

I think we'll just have to disagree on this one John !

IanF I was under the impression that there had been a cull in spain (about 2 years ago now) but that the British population has spread out again, It would therefore require a cull in the UK to prevent any more spread (I may be wrong please correct me if I am). We should be protecting birds all over the world, not just in Britain, and as White headed duck is a threatened bird world wide, Ruddy ducks (which are not even remotely endangered) should be managed, after all it was human intervention that has created this issue.

Ian

The idea of a cull is abhorrent to any birder worth his or her salt but there are issues that you have to think globally. We can't afford to be blinkered to only the UK issues only when it has an effect globally.

Established or not, the Ruddy Duck is an introduced bird.

Can I ask what your thinking was of the Mink that was released illegally. It soon spread and started to kill mercilessley. That is an animal that could establish itself quickly here in Britain. That animal was destroying everything in its path. Did you agree with the cull of that animal?

2nd point. Just for arguments sake, what if the White headed Duck had been a british species and that it was being decimated by the Ruddy Ducks release over here. Would you still vote against the cull.

I'm not having a go at you Ian because it is right that you have your own opinion. Sometimes it is necessary to place all the for and against arguments in front of people so it gives them a chance to re-evaluate the situation.

A couple of years ago I had the exact same opinion as you, (you have seen how much I like the Ruddy Duck) but having seen the evidence for myself (over in Spain where we talked to a few Spanish birders) I have changed my mind.

I am all for anything that protects the WORLD'S natural populations of birds. I have no more objection to a cull of Ruddy Ducks in the UK than I have to people shooting introduced Pheasants. In fact, I would rather they shot Ruddy Ducks ! The trial cull a few years ago did show up a few problems, and obviously it is important to avoid disturbance or shooting the wrong things !!

To me it seems common sense that populations of Ruddy Ducks in France and Spain stem from the UK birds, and will continue to thrive while nothing is done to control numbers here. The Spanish do try to shoot all Ruddys and hybrids to preserve the pure White-headed Ducks.

The point to learn from this is to avoid escapes becoming established. We should be supporting any measures to protect true populations of wild birds.

Steve

I feel torn about this issue and am leaning towards the culling camp for the sake of the WHD, however, it angers me that we should wipe out our ducks for the sake of another country's. Agreeably, I see that the Ruddy is not really our duck, being an introduction. I wonder what other european countries are doing about theirs?

Finally forgive my ignorance, how is our Ruddy threatening the WHD miles away?

Andrew Most of europe do not have ruddy duck they originate so I am lead to believe from birds released or escaped in the UK which is why it is our problem. they have spread out of France and Spain and are inter breeding with WHD, the draw back is the ruddy is far more agressive than the WHD so male ruddies will dominate thier cousins. Unfortunatly birds do not have the same boundaries as we do they do not care if it is a different country, they are european birds that are at risk due to a human error basically and if culling birds in the UK saves the WHD then I think we should all be for it.

Having said that I was involved in a discussion, a few years ago now on another forum, about this topic and I felt that as the British and european Ruddy has been seperate from the N.American ruddy do they now form a seperate sub species? I was informed that they do not so losing them here, although a shame to us would not be affecting the worlds population drasticaly, where as loosing the WHD would!

Thanks for the info, I now understand a bit better. Our birds are spreading to Spain and breeding with the descendents of the WHD thereby eliminating the strain. Right?

Thats correct. There are other threats to WHD like habitation loss but the remaining duck are as much at threat of being bred out as dieing through this loss.

I believe there may be a few who don't want the Ruddy culled because it means a tick less for them each year. This is a selfish attitude.

To everyone reading this, if this is not you I am not suggesting you are like this. Just a small minority.

Like has been said earlier I don't think a complete cull is possible or needed, a small self sustained population will not be to hard to control, and keeps the diversity of these wonderfull little ducks with us.

I am a big fan of Ruddy ducks but am not too blinkered to see the bigger picture.

Here is the Press Association story on this. Might help with some of the background,.

Peter

#######################################

PLANS SET `FOR CULL OF 6,000 RUDDY DUCKS'

By Andrew Woodcock, Political Correspondent, PA News

Plans are to be announced for a cull of 6,000 ducks in the UK to help
preserve an endangered species in Spain, it was reported today.

Conservationists believe the cull of the ruddy duck, which was introduced to
Britain from its native North America in the 1940s, is the only way to save the
Spanish white-headed duck.

The ruddy duck migrates to Spain in the winter, where it aggressively mates
with the genetically-related white-headed bird, producing a hybrid species,
which conservationists fear will eventually replace the indigenous duck
altogether.

But protesters have accused the Department for Environment, Food and Rural
Affairs of genetic cleansing and insist the interbreeding is simply an
example of Darwinian natural selection.

Environment minister Elliott Morley was expected to announce the cull of the
ruddy duck, which is found at about 1,000 sites in the UK, on Monday, reported
the BBC Radio 4 Today programme.

Dr Mark Avery of the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds backed the
move.

He told Today: The ruddy duck is a North American species and it was brought
here and released in the UK by accident at a time, 50 years ago, when nobody
envisaged the problems it would cause.

Ruddy ducks moving to Spain are the principal threat now to the white-headed
duck, which is threatened with extinction.

There are plenty of examples around the world where introduced species have
hybridised with native species and the native species has been swamped and after
a period of years that species no longer exists.

But the director of Animal Aid, Andrew Tyler, denounced the plan as a rather
grotesque exercise .

He told Today: It is an attempt at the genetic cleansing of nature. Some of
the ruddy ducks have gone to Spain and are mating with a close genetic kin,
which is endangered and brought to the point of extinction because it has been
hunted and its habitat destroyed.

They mate and produce what the conservation zealots of the RSPB call an
impure hybrid, but the white-headed duck, when it sees its progeny, doesn't say
`Oh my God, an impure hybrid!' This is Darwinian adaptation.

end
010806 MAR 03

RUDDY DUCK SET TO BE WIPED OUT

By Tom Whitehead, PA News

The ruddy duck is set to be wiped out in Britain after the Government agreed
in principle to eradicate it to protect other endangered species, it was
disclosed today.

The ducks, originally from America, are seen as a threat because they
regularly fly to Spain and mate with the endangered white-headed duck, risking
the breed's demise.

Partial culls were carried out in Britain last year but the Government is now
expected to announce such cuts in the population were not effective enough.

The news has enraged animal welfare groups who have described any cull as
grotesque and obscene .

In a written statement to the Commons on Monday, wildlife minister Elliot
Morley will announce a Government commitment to further research in to the
problem of the ruddy duck.

But the statement will also announce, for the first time, that the Government
has agreed in principle that eradication is the best strategy, a spokesman for
the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs said today.

There are an estimated 6,000 ruddy ducks in Britain and reports suggest any
total cull would cost around £5 million and take up to six years.

mf
011004 MAR 03

Cheers for that Peter, I can't believe some people are claiming Darwinian adaptation, maybe if the birds had over time spread from the states to here, but forcing the issue is not natural evolution!

If the Ruddy Duck was a rarity in its native N. America I would be having strong reservations about a cull here. But it is not in the same category as for example the Mandarin which in its native China/Korea has become possibly less numerous than the introduced UK population, now the worlds stronghold for the species??

Humans have to take responsibility for their mistakes, of which there are countless involving introduced species and where possible rectify them before the repercussions devestate other species and whole ecosystems, e.g. hedgehogs on the Western Isles, Cane Toads in Australia, mammal predators in New Zealand ...........

ps there is no such thing as a pure English/Scots/Welsh person, we are amongst the most diverse people on the planet. We breed with anything!!

cheers

The white-headed duck has nowhere else to go. Ruddy Duck are not threatened in their native habitat and, whilst I will also be sad t osee them go, extinction is forever and I would rather that the WHD was saved from that fate. Human analogies are totally false - the problem was created by H. sapiens in the first place - destruction of WHD populations and habitats by over-development and hunting making the population vulnerable and inter-breeding with Ruddy Duck the tin-hat.

Whilst we are at it - cull all grey squirrels, Canada Geese and outer Hebridean hedgehogs for the benefit of native species.