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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

The 10X42 HT compared to the SF and SV (1 Viewer)

I will add my experience with the optics mentioned. I own the SV and the Zeiss SF, and have only
tried the Zeiss HT in a store setting.

The HT was not at all to my liking ergo. wise. I was not sure what finger(s) to use to focus.

I do like open frame models, but there was something odd with the HT.

For those looking for a new Zeiss binocular, be sure to check out the Victory SF, and also the
Conquest HD. They are both are on my recommended list.

Jerry
 
SuperDuty said:
Thanks Henry

I don't know what anyone else thinks, but I believe the HT may have the most true to life colors I've seen in a binocular.
Click to expand...

I think everything you've looked thru lately has pretty true to life colors! ;)

I've gone back and forth between my 10X42 HT and SV so much on so many occasions... I really like them both and enjoy them both. Handling-wise...I probably like the HT better. LOTS to grab ahold of. I think it's built like a tank.

I wish you had an SV 10X42 to directly compare...
 
I owned that one last year, I still have my trusty Minox Porro that I've compared them all to as a yardstick. :king:

chill6x6 said:
I think everything you've looked thru lately has pretty true to life colors! ;)

I've gone back and forth between my 10X42 HT and SV so much on so many occasions... I really like them both and enjoy them both. Handling-wise...I probably like the HT better. LOTS to grab ahold of. I think it's built like a tank.

I wish you had an SV 10X42 to directly compare...
Click to expand...
 
I agree on the white, with the HT white is WHITE.

james holdsworth said:
I think you're the 1st person to ever mention a ''yellow tinge'' with the HT. All I can say is, of the few that I have tried, all absolutely do not have any yellow tinge and presented the whitest whites of any bin I have used - and this has been echoed by many dozens of other users.

How many HT's have you tried that looked yellowish?
Click to expand...
 
James and others,

If we go back a few years there were frequent arguements about the FL's colour rendition on the forum. Some said it was neutral, others "steely blue", even rather warm, but I, like a few others, saw it as having a yellowish tinge with rather muted reds. I suppose it might have been sample variation, but I guess I've tried at least 20 and any differences appeared very minor to me. The 3 FL transmission profiles for FLs on Allbinos all show a peak in the 560-580nm region and a pronounced if variable tail-off in the red. I've also commented of variation in the colour rendition of ELSV and SLC which others disputed as well. Sample variation could still be at the heart of this, or some other factor like viewing conditions, but it does begin to point to the user as the other variable. We do see differently. It's partly in our genetics, the variation in the physical and physiological make-up of the eye, and the way our brain choose to interpret the signals from the eyes. All I can say is when I see a binocular with a yellowish tinge and muted reds I expect to see a transmission profile exactly as reported by Allbinos. I fully accept that many, possibly the majority, might interpret it entirely differently.

David
 
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Dear all,
I was a bit surprised by the color discussion around the image of the Zeiss HT's. We have investigated the HT 8x42. Visually with this binocular the whites are perfectly white and that observation is fully supported by the transmission spectra we have measured. That has a maximum transmission of 95% at 550 nm and drops to around 94% at 525 nm and 600 nm, so it is practically flat in the spectral region 525-600 nm and that does not allow a color shift in my opinion.
Gijs van Ginkel
 
Gijs,

I'm sure you don''t need me to remind you that the visible spectrum is 380nm to 750nm and 625 to 600nm (or even 450nm-675nm) does not characterise the visible spectrum or determine white balance. Your sample may well be flat in that region but that tells you nothing. (Not really relevant but the mean wavelength for that range is 562.5nm, or yellow by the way.) I know there is a complex weighting involved but to keep it simple, you need equal transmission in the blue, green and red to be described as white. In your plots the transmission at 450nm is around 7% less than the peak and around 9% at 650nm which might be a little less than Allbinos profile, but both illustrate unequivocally that there is a colour bias. I suspect the one you tested might be fractionally more green than the samples I've seen, or the one Allbinos tested, but one thing is evidently clear, it's not neutral.

I have no reason to doubt you when you say you perceive it as neutral, but certainly you have no grounds to doubt me if I claim it's "yellowish" in light of the evidence.

David
 
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Typo, post 27,
Your reaction on my post 26 reads as if you are excited, but my post was certainly not meant to excite you. Yellow is in the spectral region 570-590 nm and there is no hint of a maximum in that spectral region in the transmission spectrum of the HT we have measured. On our wavelenght scale 625 nm is in the orange-red, whereas you paint it as yellow, so we disagree on that .
And, yes, the image color of the HT I just checked looks nice white with my eyes, so we have to conclude also that our eyes are different.
Gijs
 
To chill6x6 post #22 (as Gijs use, very easy to find the post, I am adopting it, thanks)

Agree!! To me, the HT (and the SF also), apart of their optics caracteristics, is the BEST, by far, about the ergonomics!!! When you pick one up, the focusing finger, IN A MOST ABSOLUTELY NATURAL WAY, fall right on the focusing wheel. And the hands are very close to the gravity center. A pleasure!!
Having tried all the top binoculars NO ONE has this design feature. Is one of the reasons, for me, to prefer the HT over all of them.

Best Regards

PHA
 
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"Decreased color vision. Cells in the retina that are responsible for normal color vision decline in sensitivity as we age, causing colors to become less bright and the contrast between different colors to be less noticeable.

In particular, blue colors may appear faded or "washed out." While there is no treatment for this normal, age-related loss of color perception, you should be aware of this loss if your profession (e.g. artist, seamstress, binocular nerd or electrician) requires fine color discrimination."

http://www.allaboutvision.com/over60/vision-changes.htm

Seems that the world gets more yellow with increasing age.
 
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Not excited Gijs, just a typo. The mean should have been 562.5 not 625 (on the geen yellow boundary) as I's sure you must have realised. Now corrected.

David
 
Vespobuteo said:
"Decreased color vision. Cells in the retina that are responsible for normal color vision decline in sensitivity as we age, causing colors to become less bright and the contrast between different colors to be less noticeable.

In particular, blue colors may appear faded or "washed out." While there is no treatment for this normal, age-related loss of color perception, you should be aware of this loss if your profession (e.g. artist, seamstress, binocular nerd or electrician) requires fine color discrimination."

http://www.allaboutvision.com/over60/vision-changes.htm

Seems that the world gets more yellow with increasing age.
Click to expand...

From my reading the yellowing of the lens of the eye and other components is rather more common., but either way, it results in a reduced ability to discriminate between shades of violet, blue and green in particular. The brain will automatically compensate by adjusting perception based on what it thinks the white balance should be, but with increasing errors as the condition develops.

Yellowing often starts in our fourties and gets worse with age, though obviously varies between individuals. So far various tests suggest my violet, blue and green discrimination is still extremely good but in reality I probably need a bit more luminance than I did when I was 20. Who knows what the future will hold!

David
 
typo said:
From my reading the yellowing of the lens of the eye and other components is rather more common., but either way, it results in a reduced ability to discriminate between shades of violet, blue and green in particular. The brain will automatically compensate by adjusting perception based on what it thinks the white balance should be, but with increasing errors as the condition develops.
David
Click to expand...

And that compensation does not work with Zeiss bins?
;)
 
Vespobuteo said:
And that compensation does not work with Zeiss bins?
;)
Click to expand...

The compensation process (colour constancy) usually takes minutes to adjust, so in continual use a Zeiss would begin to look 'neutral' fairly quickly, but generally comparisons are too fast to be affected. It would depend on how good your colour discrimination is in the first place though. ;)

David
 
SuperDuty said:
The 10X42 FL is apparently near perfect in CA control according to the test score, is it possible that it is that much better than the 10X42 HT, or maybe a different set of eyes or other circumstances involved ?

http://www.allbinos.com/108-binoculars_review-Carl_Zeiss_Victory_10x42_T*_FL.html
Click to expand...

CA rating at allbinos.

Zeiss FL 10x42 - 9.5
Zeiss FL 8x42 - 9.3
Zeiss 10x42 HT - 7.6
Swaro 10x42 SV - 6.9
Leica 10x42 UV HD Plus - 6.8

Swaro 8.5x42 gets 7.2
and I'm NOT bothered by the CA in it 99% of the time
though my 7x42 FL is better.
I expect it would be around 8.5 at allbinos, since it has a very large FOV and slight CA at the edge can be seen.

I would say that my lowest limit (according to allbinos figures) is around 7 because the 10x42 Swaro and 10x42 Leica starts to show a bit too much CA for my taste.

I wouldn't worry about CA in the 10x42 HT,
It's good enough IMO.
But tastes have been known to differ...
:-O
 
"CHROMATIC ABERRATION (10 points) - The chromatic aberration is estimated by our own observations, setting a contrastive object in the center of the field of view and moving it to the corner. Depending on our observations, binoculars can get here from 0 to 8 points for the center performance and -/+ 2 points for behavior at the egde."

The above is a quote from the Allbino's article "How do we test binoculars?"

Does that subjective method look reliable or repeatable, especially for more than one observer? Notice that one binocular could score an 8 for the center and a -2 for the edge for a total score of 6. Another could score a 4 for center and a +2 for the edge for a total score of 6. Which would you prefer?
 
Having had the FL 10x42 and my present HT, both together for a brief period, sincerely is very difficult to say the FL have better CA correction than the HT. May be the other way....Speaking about this two samples, of course.

PHA
 
henry link said:
"CHROMATIC ABERRATION (10 points) - The chromatic aberration is estimated by our own observations, setting a contrastive object in the center of the field of view and moving it to the corner. Depending on our observations, binoculars can get here from 0 to 8 points for the center performance and -/+ 2 points for behavior at the egde."

The above is a quote from the Allbino's article "How do we test binoculars?"

Does that subjective method look reliable or repeatable, especially for more than one observer? Notice that one binocular could score an 8 for the center and a -2 for the edge for a total score of 6. Another could score a 4 for center and a +2 for the edge for a total score of 6. Which would you prefer?
Click to expand...

I don't think Allbinos suggest that their tests are objective or even scientific.
But their ranking on CA pretty much correlates with mine for the bins I mentioned above. It's not rocket science...;)
I think the weighted score used for CA is reasonable. The center performance is more important than the edge.
 
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PHA said:
Having had the FL 10x42 and my present HT, both together for a brief period, sincerely is very difficult to say the FL have better CA correction than the HT. May be the other way....Speaking about this two samples, of course.

PHA
Click to expand...
I disagree. I compared the HT and FL very closely and I also find the CA control better in the FL than the HT. I have tested a lot of different binoculars for CA and actually I agree quite closely with Allbino's results. It is in fact quite easy to see the difference. They have the FL top rated for CA control and too my eyes it is the best binocular I have ever looked through for CA control. In my opinion the subjective method works quite well. It is the same old story. If your binocular isn't rated highly by Allbino's then you try to discount their methodology.
 
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