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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

New Guy With A Question (1 Viewer)

R

RealGoodNocs

Member
Hey guys, I thought I had been lurking long enough so I finally decided to join. I'm somewhat of a nooby astronomer who formerly owned a Pentax 20x60 SP WP, I was tired of lugging a tripod around for such a relatively low power instrument and figured I'd rather just use a light telescope to accomplish the same thing, so I sold it and my tripod to finance a nice handheld bino that could do double duty for my daytime terrestrial needs and for nighttime milky way sweeping.

After a ton of research on this forum and others I narrowed it down to a few choices and today I finally ordered the Zeiss Terra ED 10x42, the only problem is I'm having some buyers remorse as not soon after placing the order I found a few reviews that were pretty critical of the Terra and I found some forum post from an optics dealer (don't remember where) who basically said the Terra was junk and that buyers were just paying for the Zeiss name! :eek!:

So my question to the knowledgeable here is did I make a mistake? Are others in the Terra's $300 price range like the Vanguard Endeavor and Monarch 5 better? I'm kinda feeling unsure and bummed and I'd like to get things going in the right direction if there is indeed a better choice.
 
Hi RealGN and welcome.
I would have thought living in New York you could go to a good store and try binoculars side by side.
The best choice is usually different for different people.
If you have a fairly dark sky 10x42 may be O.K. for astronomy. Otherwise may be something bigger.
I would choose a Canon 10x30 IS II, but only 2 years warranty maybe.
Not sure of U.S. price. The Mk One IS are probably discounted.
 
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Binastro said:
Hi RealGN and welcome.
I would have thought living in New York you could go to a good store and try binoculars side by side.
The best choice is usually different for different people.
If you have a fairly dark sky 10x42 may be O.K. for astronomy. Otherwise may be something bigger.
I would choose a Canon 10x30 IS II, but only 2 years warranty maybe.
Not sure of U.S. price. The Mk One IS are probably discounted.
Click to expand...

I live upstate so there aren't too many places to go, and I figured they wouldn't have too much of a variety but maybe I'm wrong, plus I kinda feel like I'm a bother if I go and ask to see a bunch of models unless they're already out on display, I know, I'm weird. ;)
 
Is Stellafane, Vermont anywhere near you?
They have sales tables and an amazing variety at their star parties.

P.S.
August 4th to 7th 2016 Stellafane star party.
 
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I think you made a fine choice....just as good as any of the "off" brands with added Zeiss oversight in the manufacture process....along with the Zeiss warranty.....how can you go wrong....don't overthink it....
 
RealGoodNocs said:
...I finally ordered the Zeiss Terra ED 10x42, the only problem is I'm having some buyers remorse as not soon after placing the order I found a few reviews that were pretty critical of the Terra and I found some forum post from an optics dealer (don't remember where) who basically said the Terra was junk and that buyers were just paying for the Zeiss name! :eek!:

So my question to the knowledgeable here is did I make a mistake? Are others in the Terra's $300 price range like the Vanguard Endeavor and Monarch 5 better? I'm kinda feeling unsure and bummed and I'd like to get things going in the right direction if there is indeed a better choice.
Click to expand...
I do know that the Terra EDs generate differing views. I'm sure some of that is quite legitimate - but I also suspect some negativity is generated by a perception of horrid miscegenation when the storied Germanic Zeiss name is paired with China as a country of manufacture. Anyone holding that view should just get over it, IMO.

I like my 8x42 Terra EDs just fine. More than just fine - rather a lot, in fact. While they are not a $2,000 binocular for a $300 price (how likely is that, really?) they are quite good at the price point and if they suit you as well as mine suit me then they're probably better than that for your practical use.

Everybody is different, so I can easily understand if they don't suit some people. Mine do suit me - and you can only know if yours suit you by using them.

While I haven't used the Terras in 10x42, I like my 8x pair well enough that I've had no real desire to buy anything else in 42mm format (though I've spent plenty - too much! - on binoculars in other formats to meet other needs/wants). When I was looking around, I found the Terras better than the Monarch 5s and on a par (more or less) with the Monarch 7s - which were more expensive, so I bought the Terras and have been glad I did. I can't speak to the Vanguards you mention, though.

...Mike
 
Thanks for the reassurance everyone, the monarch 5's were my second choice as I wanted to stay with more established brand names, so it's good too see that they were bested by the Terras at least by mfunnell's eyes. Though still I can't help thinking about allbinos review of the Terra, is he/them pretty solid when it comes to their conclusions/processes for reviews or are they sometimes out of line?
 
RealGoodNocs said:
Though still I can't help thinking about allbinos review of the Terra, is he/them pretty solid when it comes to their conclusions/processes for reviews or are they sometimes out of line?
Click to expand...
I treat Allbinos as a very useful resource, but hardly as the last word. As with everybody, different things might matter more or less to me than they do to the Allbinos reviewer, and there are persistent biases built into the reviews that reflect that.

Not that I'm in any way disparaging of Allbinos - I just note that they're not perfect (who is?), their priorities sometimes don't match mine - so treat the reviews as useful data but rather less than definitive.

Here's a thread which includes some things I noted when Allbinos reviewed the Terra ED:

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=312693

...Mike
 
Hi,

don't fear, the Terra ED is a quite good pair of chinese roofs with the familiar blue logo and more important Zeiss warranty. It might not be the legendary alpha killer or the single best pair of chinese roofs, but certainly in the upper echelon there, from what I have seen so far of it (I think 8x42 and 8x32 models).

Just make sure to give it a good test when you receive it to avoid lemons (although with Zeiss warranty this could be rectified past the return time too). If you need advice on what to look for, let us know.

And btw... Welcome to Birdforum!

Joachim
 
jring said:
Hi,

don't fear, the Terra ED is a quite good pair of chinese roofs with the familiar blue logo and more important Zeiss warranty. It might not be the legendary alpha killer or the single best pair of chinese roofs, but certainly in the upper echelon there, from what I have seen so far of it (I think 8x42 and 8x32 models).

Just make sure to give it a good test when you receive it to avoid lemons (although with Zeiss warranty this could be rectified past the return time too). If you need advice on what to look for, let us know.

And btw... Welcome to Birdforum!

Joachim
Click to expand...

I'll make sure too give them a thorough check, thanks for the warm welcome! :t:
 
So I just received the bino and had it out on the back deck and noticed a couple of things, first off, if I concentrate on the lower part of the FOV I can notice a separation of the two barrels images. Another weird thing is this strange crescent shaped (glare?) at the bottom of the FOV. Is this normal or not?
 
RealGoodNocs said:
So I just received the bino and had it out on the back deck and noticed a couple of things, first off, if I concentrate on the lower part of the FOV I can notice a separation of the two barrels images. Another weird thing is this strange crescent shaped (glare?) at the bottom of the FOV. Is this normal or not?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure quite what you mean by separation of the two images. The perfect distance between the barrels IPD will change between close viewing and distance so alignment is frequently is less than perfect. In this case it's easily readjusted if necessary. A bigger concern would be if the barrels were not collimated. That is, they were not exactly parallel with each other. It's most noticable if one was pointing up and the other down. Small errors are fairly common, and I suspect, largely go unnoticed. If this is what is bothering you, send it back.

Most binocluars have some level of glare, particularly if you are viewing at an angle close to the sun. They also generally have what is known as false pupils. Spurious reflections, which are normally outside the exit pupil. If I remember rightly, the Terra has a fair amount of both. The good news is the effect of both can often be reduced or eliminated by adjusting eye positioning, but it's less easy at lower light levels when the pupils of your eye dilate. Although I've tried the Terra several times I've not tried it in low light like that, so couldn't say for sure how how it compares.

Good luck,

David
 
RealGoodNocs said:
So I just received the bino and had it out on the back deck and noticed a couple of things, first off, if I concentrate on the lower part of the FOV I can notice a separation of the two barrels images. Another weird thing is this strange crescent shaped (glare?) at the bottom of the FOV. Is this normal or not?
Click to expand...

Quite recently another poster reported something similar to you regarding the image separation and (as mentioned by Typo) it turned out that this was due to the poster looking at subjects that were very close. At these distances the fields of view of the two optical tubes of the bins do not fully overlap and at really close distances this reduction in overlap increases and can be really distracting. If you close the binocular hinge a little (ie you reduce the Interpupillary Distance) the fields of view overlap a bit more and you reduce the effect. Concentrate on looking at your subject in the centre of the field where the two fields of view do overlap. With practice it becomes easy to ignore the parts where the fields are separated.

If you encounter strange optical effects like the crescent shape with any bins, it is useful to turn to face other directions to see if the effect changes or disappears. Changing direction by 90 degrees then another 90 etc until you are back facing the direction you started will tell you whether it is the angle and direction from which light is arriving at the bins that is causing the effect. Sometimes viewing over water can give odd results if you get a strong reflection of light off the water as well as direct light from, for example a low, setting or rising, sun. Make sure you don't look at the sun when you rotate to look in different directions.

Lee
 
Troubador said:
Quite recently another poster reported something similar to you regarding the image separation and (as mentioned by Typo) it turned out that this was due to the poster looking at subjects that were very close. At these distances the fields of view of the two optical tubes of the bins do not fully overlap and at really close distances this reduction in overlap increases and can be really distracting. If you close the binocular hinge a little (ie you reduce the Interpupillary Distance) the fields of view overlap a bit more and you reduce the effect. Concentrate on looking at your subject in the centre of the field where the two fields of view do overlap. With practice it becomes easy to ignore the parts where the fields are separated.

If you encounter strange optical effects like the crescent shape with any bins, it is useful to turn to face other directions to see if the effect changes or disappears. Changing direction by 90 degrees then another 90 etc until you are back facing the direction you started will tell you whether it is the angle and direction from which light is arriving at the bins that is causing the effect. Sometimes viewing over water can give odd results if you get a strong reflection of light off the water as well as direct light from, for example a low, setting or rising, sun. Make sure you don't look at the sun when you rotate to look in different directions.

Lee
Click to expand...

I think you're right regarding the separation, if I look at things farther away I don't see it, it seems to only happen at very close distances. Now this crescent glare is the real issue, last night I saw it at sunset and today I'm seeing it with cloudy skies so It's not because I'm viewing near the sun.

Hopefully I'm not sensitive to this effect cause I find it ridiculously distracting, if I look straight forward I don't notice it too much, maybe just a slight white fog, but if I tilt my eyes downward to see the bottom edge of the FOV it gets really bright and opaque and when its at its worst it even creeps up on the sides making a lot of the FOV unusable.

Does anyone think the 8x42 version might be better? Or does anyone know of another make in the $300-400 range that wouldn't have this issue?
 
RealGoodNocs said:
I think you're right regarding the separation, if I look at things farther away I don't see it, it seems to only happen at very close distances. Now this crescent glare is the real issue, last night I saw it at sunset and today I'm seeing it with cloudy skies so It's not because I'm viewing near the sun.

Hopefully I'm not sensitive to this effect cause I find it ridiculously distracting, if I look straight forward I don't notice it too much, maybe just a slight white fog, but if I tilt my eyes downward to see the bottom edge of the FOV it gets really bright and opaque and when its at its worst it even creeps up on the sides making a lot of the FOV unusable.

Does anyone think the 8x42 version might be better? Or does anyone know of another make in the $300-400 range that wouldn't have this issue?
Click to expand...

RGN

Please forgive me if you know this already but it can explain strange views through bins.

If you don't wear spectacles you should unscrew/pull up the eyecups to their fully up position and if you wear spectacles the eyecups should be all the way down. You should also ensure that the binoculars' hinge is adjusted to where the field of view is a perfect circle.

Check this out and report back.

Good luck, Lee
 
OK, I have just been outside with my Terra 8x32s pointing at a bright but thin cloud sky and I have been able to get a crecent at the bottom of the FOV. Don't know if its the same cause as yours but here is how I got it.

I had the Terras set for viewing without spectacles and with the eyecups fully out and put up to my eye sockets and with my eyes centred on the centre of the eyepiece lens there was no crescent. However if I moved the bins upwards so the rested closer to my brows, but still within what you would call the eyesocket area, kazam, there was the crescent. Moving the bins back down to centre on the eyes and crescent disappears, move them up and bang here it comes again. And with the crescent there or nearly there, if I swiveled my eyes to look down, OMG it was much worse.

So, take your Terras and look through them and if you get the crescents, shuffle them downwards a little. If its the same as for me, as soon as you get your eyes centred over the eyepiece lenses the crescents will disappear.

Go for it.

Lee
 
So I was out for a while trying different eye positions but none of them seemed to help much, at best they had a very slight effect but if I moved them too far up or down in my eye socket I started to get blackouts on the top or bottom of the FOV. Something else I forgot to mention was the stiffness of the right eyecup, it takes like 3x as much force to turn as the left one, almost feels like its not on perfectly straight but it doesn't look off, or at least its' not obvious.

It's such a shame too cause I really like the feel of these in hand and the smoothness of the focus but the glare and the eyecup issue are making me think about a return/exchange. But if I do return them how can I be confident that a different brand wouldn't have this flare?
 
Have you tried bracing the binocular's extended eye cups up against and just under your eye brows on your brow ridge when you use them? I cannot use any binocular if I put the eye cups back into my eye sockets because I get blackouts when I do. I have them in the fully extended position when I use my binoculars as I describe in the 1st sentence above.

Practice it a bit to get the right position and see if it works for you in getting rid of the blackouts. It will also help keep the binocular steady. You will have to move your head to follow birds as they are flying rather than moving your eyes. This will help you keep your pupils on axis with the exit pupils and this in itself can eliminate a lot of glare.

I have both a Zeiss 8x32 Terra ED and an 8x42 Terra ED and they have large comfortable eye cups that work well when used in the manner described above but the eye cups of the Terra EDs are not exactly "state of the art" in operation. They do not snap into place when you extend them and frankly they have a mushy feeling while extending and retracting but they do stay in place. Yours will probably loosen up with use. I notice that the eye cups on mine work stiffly if I do not use the binoculars on a regular basis.

Bob
 
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RealGoodNocs said:
So I just received the bino and had it out on the back deck and noticed a couple of things, first off, if I concentrate on the lower part of the FOV I can notice a separation of the two barrels images. Another weird thing is this strange crescent shaped (glare?) at the bottom of the FOV. Is this normal or not?
Click to expand...
As others have noted, the "separation of the two barrels images" would most likely be fixed by correctly adjusting the IPD to best suit the viewing distance.

As to the "strange crescent shaped (glare?)" - I just tried my 8x42 Terra EDs in glare-inducing conditions (the rising sun, through light cloud, near but off-axis from the direction I was viewing). With eyecup extension and IPD set correctly I could induce an effect quite similar to what you're describing if I deliberately moved my eye position away from where it falls naturally to me. This had to be quite deliberate, but I could do it. It may be that the larger exit pupil of the 8x42 makes correct positioning less critical than your 10x42s - and it may also be that the combination of my facial features and the Terra eyecup design etc. makes the correct (non-flare) position quite natural for me - while maybe it's not for you. If it is difficult to get your eyes into the 'right' postion then I imagine this would become quite irritating.

RealGoodNocs said:
But if I do return them how can I be confident that a different brand wouldn't have this flare?
Click to expand...
As is so often true, the only way you can really know if a particular bin suits you individually, regardless of how well or badly it suits someone else, is to try it for yourself. Or, at the very least, to have used enough different types that you have a good idea what suits you and what doesn't (which can take time and money for experimentation). Even then, only trying them can tell you for sure.

...Mike
 
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