• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Pentax PF-80 ED eye relief? (1 Viewer)

I just received a Pentax PF-80 ED spotting scope. I purchased the scope after much research. It was highly praised among scopes in its price range. Several reviews I read indicated that the 20mm eye-relief of this scope was quite adequate for using with eye glasses.

After trying it out I have found that I cannot achieve a full field of view unless my glasses are touching the eye piece. This is with the eye-cup all the way down. In this condition my contact with the scope makes the scope wiggle and makes viewing difficult.

I actually want to use my spotting scope primarily for target shooting, thus the need for wearing glasses, but my wife enjoys bird watching and will get a lot of good use from this scope. We actually have bald eagles that nest at a lake near our house, and we sometimes see them soaring nearby.

I would think that with 20mm of eye-relief I shouldn't be making contact with the eye-piece. Is this normal? Is it possible that my sample is defective? Thanks for any help.

Robert
 
Last edited:
ks_shooter said:
I just received a Pentax PF-80 ED spotting scope. I purchased the scope after much research. It was highly praised among scopes in its price range. Several reviews I read indicated that the 20mm eye-relief of this scope was quite adequate for using with eye glasses.

After trying it out I have found that I cannot achieve a full field of view unless my glasses are touching the eye piece. This is with the eye-cup all the way down. In this condition my contact with the scope makes the scope wiggle and makes viewing difficult.

I actually want to use my spotting scope primarily for target shooting, thus the need for wearing glasses, but my wife enjoys bird watching and will get a lot of good use from this scope. We actually have bald eagles that nest at a lake near our house, and we sometimes see them soaring nearby.

I would think that with 20mm of eye-relief I shouldn't be making contact with the eye-piece. Is this normal? Is it possible that my sample is defective? Thanks for any help.

Robert


Robert,

Which eyepiece are you using?

John
 
John Traynor said:
Robert,

Which eyepiece are you using?

John

John,

The scope came with the 20-60x zoom eye-piece. I purchased it from Adorama. I didn't see another Pentax lens with a longer eye-relief. From what I saw the XW eyepieces all have 20mm eye-relief.

The Swift 15-45x spotting scope that I used in the past has about a 30mm eye-relief and my glasses never touch the eye-piece.


Robert
 
There appear to be two Pentax zooms. An XF zoom with ER of 11-15mm and one with 18-22mm of ER . I think I know which one you've got.Neil.
 
Neil said:
There appear to be two Pentax zooms. An XF zoom with ER of 11-15mm and one with 18-22mm of ER . I think I know which one you've got.Neil.

The XF zoom doesn't have mag of 20-60 on the PF80 as it has focal length 6.5-19mm. I think the poster has the 8-24mm zoom. The expensive one with more eye relief..............
 
ks_shooter said:
I just received a Pentax PF-80 ED spotting scope. I purchased the scope after much research. It was highly praised among scopes in its price range. Several reviews I read indicated that the 20mm eye-relief of this scope was quite adequate for using with eye glasses.

After trying it out I have found that I cannot achieve a full field of view unless my glasses are touching the eye piece. This is with the eye-cup all the way down. In this condition my contact with the scope makes the scope wiggle and makes viewing difficult.

I actually want to use my spotting scope primarily for target shooting, thus the need for wearing glasses, but my wife enjoys bird watching and will get a lot of good use from this scope. We actually have bald eagles that nest at a lake near our house, and we sometimes see them soaring nearby.

I would think that with 20mm of eye-relief I shouldn't be making contact with the eye-piece. Is this normal? Is it possible that my sample is defective? Thanks for any help.

Robert

Bob I think you may be barking up the wrong tree.
As a ex range shooter myself I know what kind of eye relief you need. To my knowledge Your Pentax Zoom nor any other EP for the Pentax will give you the kind of eye relief you need.

Check out Natchez Shooters Supply.
Take a look at the leupold-12-40x60mm-golden-ring-hd-spotting-scope
It has 30mm of eye relief across the entire zoom range. It uses a prism system very different than a coventional spotter to meet the needs of shooters.

The Pentax is a premium spotting scope for nature study but is not well suited for the shooting range. On the other hand the Leupold is made for that purpose and could double as a back porch part time raptor scope.

Take a look at it Here:

http://www.opticsplanet.net/leupold-12-40x60mm-golden-ring-hd-spotting-scope.html
 
Sout Fork,

Thanks for the reply. The Leupold looks like an interesting scope, but I require one with an angled eyepiece. I checked around on the web and didn't see this model offered with an angled eye-piece.

I knew when I bought the Pentax that the eye-relief was less than other spotting scopes used by shooters. The Kowa LER eye piece has about 32mm of eye relief instead of 20mm. I guess I am surprised that so many people indicated that they could view this scope OK with glasses. Do wildlife watchers prefer an eye piece that requires your glasses to touch the eye-piece? I noticed that the Pentax has an adjustable rubber eye piece boot that seems to be for this purpose.

I would think that having to touch the scope while viewing would cause distracting image movement from jiggling the scope, regardless of what kind of activity you used it for.

I have decided to return this scope to Adorama, which is a shame because I think that it has very good optics and I like the standardized eye pieces. I have located a Bushnell Elite 80mm ED spotting scope with a 22x LER eye piece that has 34mm of eye-relief. It has had good reviews also. It may not have quite the optical clarity of the Pentax, but it will have the eye relief that I need. Thanks again.

Robert
 
Last edited:
ks_shooter said:
Sout Fork,

Do wildlife watchers prefer an eye piece that requires your glasses to touch the eye-piece?


I would think that having to touch the scope while viewing would cause distracting image movement from jiggling the scope, regardless of what kind of activity you used it for.

Robert

I can't speak for others but I know I like to gently touch the eyepiece because it keeps my head and eye properly centered over the ep.

The jiggling issue:
I wonder if perhaps you are using too light a weight tripod? My tripod is a Manfrotto 3228W with the 3030 head. It weighs about 9 pounds without scope. Rock solid touching the ep or not. I'm often over 50x without any problems of jitters.

If the "jitters" is your only issue with the Pentax I'd suggest you try it out on a good solid tripod before you send it back. Put your present tripod on a scale and see what it weighs. What make and model are you now using?
Your problem may be something as simple as a subpar tripod for that 80mm.
 
Sout Fork,

Standard tripods aren't used much in target shooting, they don't allow the scope to be set low enough to the ground. My scope stand is home-made. Probably weighs 20 lbs. But it has a small footprint compared to a tripod, probably only 12" wide. It consists of a heavy metal plate for a base and a vertical pole. I have a sliding arm on the pole that supports the scope in a cantilvered fashion about 10" from the pole. This is not the most stable arrangement, but it is typical of scope stands for target shooting. It allows the scope to be near the shooter with out getting tangled up in the scope stand.

I have an inexpensive slow-motion tripod head that I use to fine-tune my view through the scope. With the Pentax's weight this little adapter has quite a bit of wiggle in it if you push on the scope. I could invest in a better tripod head, but I don't think I would ever be happy with the short eye-relief. I guess there is a reason so many target shooters use the Kowa scopes with LER eyepieces. They have 32mm of eye-relief compared to the Pentax's 20mm.

I really wanted an 80mm scope with ED glass. The Kowa of this type is around $1,400, compared to the $825 I paid for the Pentax. I can get an 80mm Kowa with normal coated glass for $825, but I imagine it would give up a lot clarity to the ED glass scopes.

Another 80mm ED scope is my price range is the Bushnell Elite. It has a 22x LER eyepiece that has 34mm of eye-relief. I was actually going to buy the Bushnell originally, until I came across several reviews on the Pentax. I knew the eye-relief was less, but several users indicated they could use it well with glasses, and it sounded like a tremendous scope.


Robert
 
Last edited:
Sout Fork,

Standard tripods aren't used much in target shooting, they don't allow the scope to be set low enough to the ground. My scope stand is home-made. Probably weighs 20 lbs. But it has a small footprint compared to a tripod, probably only 12" wide. It consists of a heavy metal plate for a base and a vertical pole. I have a sliding arm on the pole that supports the scope in a cantilvered fashion about 10" from the pole. This is not the most stable arrangement, but it is typical of scope stands for target shooting. It allows the scope to be near the shooter with out getting tangled up in the scope stand.

I have an inexpensive slow-motion tripod head that I use to fine-tune my view through the scope. With the Pentax's weight this little adapter has quite a bit of wiggle in it if you push on the scope.

SF:
Ahah! It sounds as if this might be the cause of your wiggle problem. Assuming this set up worked for you before the Pentax were you using a lighter more low-power scope before the Pentax? My tripod feet are about 40" apart and of course the scope is balanced and centered exactly over the apex of the pyramid that the legs form.

I could invest in a better tripod head, but I don't think I would ever be happy with the short eye-relief. I guess there is a reason so many target shooters use the Kowa scopes with LER eyepieces. They have 32mm of eye-relief compared to the Pentax's 20mm.

SF:For years I used, and still have, a spacemaster with 20x,40x eps on a table tripod. I was always shooting from a bench and this setup worked fine.
It always escaped my why such extreme ER was felt to be necessary. Remember in general 20mm ER is considered more than adequate for decent comfort and use and 30+mm ER is extreme and brings with it it's own optical problems and compromises. By far most high quality EPs are designed assuming your eye WILL be touching the eyecup-stable eye position and cutting down on stray light flare.

I really wanted an 80mm scope with ED glass.

SF: Why? Taking you at your word it really dosn't sound like an 80mm ED would be of any particular advantage to you over a well made conventional 60mm. How good, and large, does a scope have to be to count holes in a piece of paper 100-200 yds away with a little informal bird watching on the side? The conventional 60mm Nikon Fieldscope III 60mm AN
is a excellent glass ED or not.

On the other hand...
If you are trying to distinguish a Sharp-Shinned Hawk from a Cooper's Hawk at half a mile by eye color alone and it's a half hour before sunset than, sure, get a 80mm ED with a $350 fixed focus 50x high-refraction, extra-low-dispersion lanthanum glass wide-field EP. And even then such a set-up might not cut it.

Otherwise get what you really need and buy some ammo with the difference.

By the way I'm 68 years old and have extreme astigmagtism and must wear glasses. 20 mm eye relief works fine for me.

I hope you find something suitable for your needs.

Good Shooting and Birding,
SF.
 
I have both the nikon 60 ed & 60 non ed I,ve also done much shooting .I think you would find the non ed quite acceptable for target shooting purposes,& save some $ too.
Brian.
 
Thank you both for the replies.

I compete in NRA Highpower target shooting, which is sling-supported position shooting at ranges from 200 to 600 yards. Unlike benchrest shooting, we shoot standing, sitting, and prone. The prone position requires the scope to be very close to ground, while the standing position requires the scope to be 5~6 ft. above the ground. The scope stands developed for this sport (of which mine is a copy) are designed to allow for this extreme height adjustment, while remaining out of the way of the shooter.

A key to position shooting is disturbing your position as little as possible between shots. I believe the long eye-relief is a benefit because the scope can be used with minimal movement of the head - but is still far enough away to not be bumped or be in the way while shooting.

The scope is used for seeing the targets, but is also used primarily for trying to detect wind movement by viewing the mirage/distortion in the air. An uncorrected 5 mph wind change can easily to turn a "10" into a "5" on the target. Detect mirage can very difficult and depends on the weather on a given day, thus the need for high quality optics.

Thanks.


Robert
 
Last edited:
I wanted to tie off this thread by saying that I chose to return the Pentax scope. No problem with the quality, I just decided that it wasn't a good fit for my application.

It might be heresy to mention it on this forum, but I purchasd a Bushnell Elite 80mm ED to replace it. I bought a 22x LER eyepiece to go with it. As far as I can tell by trying to read little bitty names on street signs a 1/4 of mile away, the image through the Bushnell is the equal of the Pentax. It also has plenty of eye-relief to accommodate my shooting glasses without bumping the scope.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Robert
 
Warning! This thread is more than 18 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top