• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Birds of Bolivia - Rip off? (1 Viewer)

andyadcock said:
Had a pm to say that the title is $75 in the states although even there, there seems to be no stock.


A
Click to expand...

I think the initial printing was meant to be distributed mainly within Bolivia and possibly the rest of the continent. Shipping to Europe and possibly to North America seems so horribly expensive that a new print run up north must be the solution now planned. At the same time, as much urgent desire has already been stuffed, it is obvious that the number of copies likely to be sold from such a second printing will not be extremely high. Thus, distributing the costs over that lower number of copies will raise the price. And finally, the idea is still to provide funds for the local projects in Bolivia. So that will all up the final price. But then, if it turns out to be too high, many such as myself will think twice about getting a copy, particularly if one has no immediate travel plans. It's really a shame that this book might be priced out of the average FG collector's considerations. :-C

As for there not being any copies available at this point, it is no wonder. The book as announced now will have to be printed first. If Buteo Books really did get some books shipped from Bolivia, as they once intended, they will all long have gone. But I think a price of 75$ would be acceptable considering the points mentioned above.

Edit: I notice Buteo Books have not even listed the book any more!
 
Last edited:
It would be extremely annoying if, having paid £90 for this book, it was then printed in Europe and sold at half that price which is probably what it's worth at most?

It was first offered on the Wildsounds site for £70 I believe but it's academic as no one can get any.


A
 
Last edited:
I made a donation to the charity producing it (which can be done with UK Gift Aid, thus squeezing a bit off the govt too), and they posted me two copies. In pure monetary terms, each cost me way over the odds, but I am very pleased to have been able to support the local production of a quality field guide and the encouragement that will provide to local birding. I've not had a chance yet to use my copy in the field, but I hope I will one day. Even if monetary considerations were prime, the cost is small beer compared to the total cost of a birding trip to Bolivia. The other copy is returning to Bolivia as we speak in the hands of a birding friend, and I hope it will return well-thumbed.
 
aegithalos said:
I made a donation to the charity producing it (which can be done with UK Gift Aid, thus squeezing a bit off the govt too), and they posted me two copies. In pure monetary terms, each cost me way over the odds, but I am very pleased to have been able to support the local production of a quality field guide and the encouragement that will provide to local birding. I've not had a chance yet to use my copy in the field, but I hope I will one day. Even if monetary considerations were prime, the cost is small beer compared to the total cost of a birding trip to Bolivia. The other copy is returning to Bolivia as we speak in the hands of a birding friend, and I hope it will return well-thumbed.
Click to expand...


That's a very well worn argument that has been used ad nauseum to justify other high costs in the past e.g guide fees. I pay plenty to charities and various conservation organisations as it is but thanks for the lecture. As I understand it, all the proceeds from the book will go to charity so you will have already donated with your purchase.

The cost of this book in the UK is or will be, double or more, than the original price so regardless of the breakdown of costs, this is an expensive book, similar titles usually cost less than half of this and no way is £90 per copy, winging it's way to Amonia. I was ready to pay the high price of postage quoted at the time, it's the profiteering on this side of the atlantic that I object to.

I tried to get one posted to me last year on several occasions but never got a reply of any kind from the official site.

Btw, I'll bet you didn't pay almost £100 per copy?


A
 
Last edited:
andyadcock said:
Btw, I'll bet you didn't pay almost £100 per copy?
Click to expand...

My cost per book was substantially more than £100. However, I don't think of this transaction as a purchase, I think of it as a donation to an exceptionally worth while cause that I wanted to support, with the two copies as a bonus. I would like to see more locally produced identification books, and I am willing to donate to help that process, in addition to any surplus that the charity would have got if I had simply purchased a copy.

If this book was produced by a for-profit publisher, such as Collins or Helm, I would be with you on your arguments. But it isn't - it's produced by a charity in the global south, attempting to make information on their country's birds available and more widely distributed locally. The increased awareness that generates ultimately benefits us all, whether we are Bolivians or visiting birders.

Keith
 
Last edited:
aegithalos said:
My cost per book was substantially more than £100. However, I don't think of this transaction as a purchase, I think of it as a donation to an exceptionally worth while cause that I wanted to support, with the two copies as a bonus. I would like to see more locally produced identification books, and I am willing to donate to help that process, in addition to any surplus that the charity would have got if I had simply purchased a copy.

If this book was produced by a for-profit publisher, such as Collins or Helm, I would be with you on your arguments. But it isn't - it's produced by a charity in the global south, attempting to make information on their country's birds available and more widely distributed locally. The increased awareness that generates ultimately benefits us all, whether we are Bolivians or visiting birders.

Keith
Click to expand...

More than £100 per copy, exclusive of your donation?

Who did you contact to get one, I can get no reply from the official site?


A
 
Has anyone that owns or has seen this book written a review (or could they)? I'm thinking about going after a copy. It is listed on Amazon for $95, with very little information otherwise. I don't intend to buy it there, but would rather go directly to the publisher in Bolivia, if that approach is working.

We visited Argentina a few years back and one of the illustrators for this book, Hector Slongo, was our guide (a very good guide!) He showed us a number of the illustrations he had completed for this book and we thought they looked wonderful. I've been anticipating this book for a while.

Thanks,
 
Lerxst said:
Has anyone that owns or has seen this book written a review (or could they)? I'm thinking about going after a copy. It is listed on Amazon for $95, with very little information otherwise. I don't intend to buy it there, but would rather go directly to the publisher in Bolivia, if that approach is working.

We visited Argentina a few years back and one of the illustrators for this book, Hector Slongo, was our guide (a very good guide!) He showed us a number of the illustrations he had completed for this book and we thought they looked wonderful. I've been anticipating this book for a while.

Thanks,
Click to expand...

Good luck with that, I never got a reply to at least three requests to buy it direct.

My regular supplier had it listed in anticipation of receiving a small stock but it seems to have now been delisted.

The current Amazon listing inclusive of postage will cost about £100 as they're all in the US and the quoted postage from Bolivia will make it a similar price. This is a book that's high on the wanted list and I cannot believe that it hasn't been made available in Europe!


A
 
Last edited:
andyadcock said:
.........and I cannot believe that it hasn't been made available in Europe!


A
Click to expand...

Andy, you probably don't understand the different history of this book. It is not the typical commercial venture. Rather, it is kind of a foreign aid venture where, among others, the Swiss government has helped financially. Thus, the main purpose was to provide a book for the country's inhabitants, I think. Of course, it would have made sense to have a much larger print run. But that is easy to say in hindsight. At the time when decisions had to be made, it seems that there was just not enough assured money to risk printing more and then maybe sit on hundreds of copies for a long time. Of course, a typical commercial entrepreneur would have handled things differently. but as things are now, there is at least a completed book from which it should not all that difficult to produce more copies. The main problem as I see it is that the demand is now in the northern hemisphere whereas the basis for the book is on the other half of the globe. Printing more there, and then shipping from there probably would result in the high price you are rightfully suspecting. So I hope the intended printing "up north" will not be delayed much longer. There are obviously many of us who would want a copy.
 
Swissboy said:
Andy, you probably don't understand the different history of this book. It is not the typical commercial venture. Rather, it is kind of a foreign aid venture where, among others, the Swiss government has helped financially. Thus, the main purpose was to provide a book for the country's inhabitants, I think. Of course, it would have made sense to have a much larger print run. But that is easy to say in hindsight. At the time when decisions had to be made, it seems that there was just not enough assured money to risk printing more and then maybe sit on hundreds of copies for a long time. Of course, a typical commercial entrepreneur would have handled things differently. but as things are now, there is at least a completed book from which it should not all that difficult to produce more copies. The main problem as I see it is that the demand is now in the northern hemisphere whereas the basis for the book is on the other half of the globe. Printing more there, and then shipping from there probably would result in the high price you are rightfully suspecting. So I hope the intended printing "up north" will not be delayed much longer. There are obviously many of us who would want a copy.
Click to expand...

Not everything done by the Swiss is as precise as a Swiss watch, then!;)
MJB
 
I cannot find the post now but I saw a question go by on FB a few days or a week back, asking if the book would be published in Europe, and if Lynx would be publishing it. Sebastian commented that it was going to be reprinted and would be distributed in Europe by Lynx. I don't recall any mention of dates.
 
pbjosh said:
I cannot find the post now but I saw a question go by on FB a few days or a week back, asking if the book would be published in Europe, and if Lynx would be publishing it. Sebastian commented that it was going to be reprinted and would be distributed in Europe by Lynx. I don't recall any mention of dates.
Click to expand...

Even with a donation, the book shouldn't cost more than £40-50 but then, the whole proceeds are supposed to be going to the cause anyway so you're supporting simply in buying it at the retail price.


A
 
Swissboy said:
Andy, you probably don't understand the different history of this book. It is not the typical commercial venture. Rather, it is kind of a foreign aid venture where, among others, the Swiss government has helped financially. Thus, the main purpose was to provide a book for the country's inhabitants, I think. Of course, it would have made sense to have a much larger print run. But that is easy to say in hindsight. At the time when decisions had to be made, it seems that there was just not enough assured money to risk printing more and then maybe sit on hundreds of copies for a long time. Of course, a typical commercial entrepreneur would have handled things differently. but as things are now, there is at least a completed book from which it should not all that difficult to produce more copies. The main problem as I see it is that the demand is now in the northern hemisphere whereas the basis for the book is on the other half of the globe. Printing more there, and then shipping from there probably would result in the high price you are rightfully suspecting. So I hope the intended printing "up north" will not be delayed much longer. There are obviously many of us who would want a copy.
Click to expand...

Robert, we live in a computer age, why would they have to be printed in the Southern hemisphere to be shipped to the Northern?

Versions of the same Books are printed routinely in Europe or America without the neeed for shipping, all we need is a european printer / publisher.



A
 
andyadcock said:
Robert, we live in a computer age, why would they have to be printed in the Southern hemisphere to be shipped to the Northern?

Versions of the same Books are printed routinely in Europe or America without the neeed for shipping, all we need is a european printer / publisher.



A
Click to expand...

I guess printing it in the Northern Hemisphere would have made the book more expensive for people in Bolivia, whom were their main target "audience". And you'd need to travel to say, Spain or the UK, to take care upclose of the printing process (quality check, choosing the right paper, etc...). But maybe there were other completely different reasons behind their choice?
 
Last edited:
I managed to get a copy from Buteo Books in the US, with the cost of shipping to Italy it came out rather expensive, but it is a very good book. The texts are superb, on par with the Schulenberg et al Peru guide, concise yet very informative and authoritative, with proper attention paid to geographic variation and vocalizations. The maps use dots to mark confirmed records and color shading to mark expected distribution, which I think works very well. With 6 principal illustrators and another 7 artists contributing illustrations, it's no surprise that the plates are a little uneven, but on the whole they are quite good. The ones by Tofte are some of the very best illustrations of Neotropical birds anywhere, for some groups (e.g. raptors) perhaps THE best. I quite like JQ Vidoz's plates as well, although his style is strikingly different from that of Tofte. The other plates range from pretty good to a very few that are downright terrible (a couple of the manakins), but the worst ones are for birds that are very distinctive and easy to identify, so are not really a problem. I get the sense that printing quality for the plates could have been better, and this contributed to a less-than-stellar first impression, but after spending some time studying the book I really came to appreciate just how good it is.

Given the history of this book and its overall quality, I think the title of this thread is a little unfair.
 
cajanuma said:
I managed to get a copy from Buteo Books in the US, with the cost of shipping to Italy it came out rather expensive, but it is a very good book. The texts are superb, on par with the Schulenberg et al Peru guide, concise yet very informative and authoritative, with proper attention paid to geographic variation and vocalizations. The maps use dots to mark confirmed records and color shading to mark expected distribution, which I think works very well. With 6 principal illustrators and another 7 artists contributing illustrations, it's no surprise that the plates are a little uneven, but on the whole they are quite good. The ones by Tofte are some of the very best illustrations of Neotropical birds anywhere, for some groups (e.g. raptors) perhaps THE best. I quite like JQ Vidoz's plates as well, although his style is strikingly different from that of Tofte. The other plates range from pretty good to a very few that are downright terrible (a couple of the manakins), but the worst ones are for birds that are very distinctive and easy to identify, so are not really a problem. I get the sense that printing quality for the plates could have been better, and this contributed to a less-than-stellar first impression, but after spending some time studying the book I really came to appreciate just how good it is.

Given the history of this book and its overall quality, I think the title of this thread is a little unfair.
Click to expand...

The title isn't unfair, it's not aimed at the publishers, the cost of the book if you could get it, is less than half of what is being charged in Europe.

A
 
Warning! This thread is more than 5 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Similar threads

G
Leica, Zeiss & Swarovski binoculars compared: A personal report
2 3
Replies
42
Views
3K
Paultricounty
P
H
Review of birding apps I use on Android
Replies
7
Views
2K
THE_FERN
T
yarrellii
Sky Rover 8x30 ED first (underwhelming) impressions
Replies
11
Views
2K
gcole
G
E
Sharm-el-Sheikh, 13-16 December 2023
2
Replies
22
Views
2K
Earnest lad
E
dalat
4 weeks tropical birding with the Zeiss SFL 8x30
4 5 6
Replies
101
Views
11K
dalat
dalat

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top