• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Norfolk birding (15 Viewers)

So the purpose of your original post was... what? Just inviting a harmless discussion on the subject, without digging for more information, i.e. locations?!! Call me an old cynic but usually posts discussing rumours of scarce breeders descend very rapidly into someone being stupid and letting slip something they shouldn't... IF rumours are true, as Tideliner says, it's possible these birds could come back to the same spot - Ravens are certainly site faithful.

Irene. May I point out first that Ravens are not not a rare breeding bird. Second. egg collectors are often more aware of gen re rare breeders that most birders give them credit for. On Mull, the awareness of birders to rare breeders (ie. sea eagles) has led to eggers being caught. I would suspect eggers are fully aware of the Norfolk Monty's sites, one of the worst kept Norfolk secrets!! The fact that they are well watched helps there protection! Details of sites should not be released which I have not done. In respect of the Hoopoes, they are long and gone and will probably not return. If the do (that would be nice), then I have given no information that could possibly lead to the site being located! When RBA are aware of possible breeding, then there policy is not to release news once the breeding link has been established. As for other people discussing locations of breeding wrynecks (I knew the possible locality anyway) then that really is not down to me. Will have to agree to differ Irene!!:cat::cat:
 
Irene. May I point out first that Ravens are not not a rare breeding bird

That doesn't mean that the unofficial and unplanned release of a breeding site, or any rumour-baiting to that affect, wouldn't cause issues. It would be undoubtedly popular amongst birders, potentially resulting in damage, disturbance etc, while eggers in the past have been known to target certain species and then any 'lesser species' in the surrounding area.

As for the bird news services policy, always nice to have a good theory - putting it into practise is another, and sometimes it would seem challenging, matter of course...
 
is this the first juvie autumn Wheatear hoping about around the grounded boat along the creek at Blakeney? oh yeah so it is - cuckoo too
 
That doesn't mean that the unofficial and unplanned release of a breeding site, or any rumour-baiting to that affect, wouldn't cause issues. It would be undoubtedly popular amongst birders, potentially resulting in damage, disturbance etc, while eggers in the past have been known to target certain species and then any 'lesser species' in the surrounding area.

As for the bird news services policy, always nice to have a good theory - putting it into practise is another, and sometimes it would seem challenging, matter of course...
Connor some good points. I presume u still need raven as a county tick? I premuse if some birds wintered you would expect the news to be put out? Raven is not a rare breeder. If the cley hooded crow (a rare bird in norfolk but not a rare bird) was a long stayer and was joined by a second bird next spring. Would u expect u expect news to kept quiet as a result? :cat:
 
Connor some good points. I presume u still need raven as a county tick? I premuse if some birds wintered you would expect the news to be put out? Raven is not a rare breeder. If the cley hooded crow (a rare bird in norfolk but not a rare bird) was a long stayer and was joined by a second bird next spring. Would u expect u expect news to kept quiet as a result? :cat:

I do still need Raven as a county tick. If a bird or a pair wintered at a potential breeding site in the county and the finder decided to keep the news quiet for that reason then I would be fine with that. Breeding Ravens at sites in surrounding counties e.g. Lincs are surpressed and I don't see why Norfolk should be any different in this regard. The same applies to other rare birds in the county that could be targeted that are not rare nationally e.g. Red Kite.

I think the Hooded Crow example is slightly different. Obviously from a geographical perspective they are far less likely to breed and in the very unlikely event they did it is much less likely they would remain site-faithful as with Ravens. I also think it is much less likely this species would be targeted.

Ultimately it is up to the finders discretion, but with the recent egging cases in the county surely it is better to be safer than sorry.
 
... raven as a county tick? I premuse if some birds wintered you would expect the news to be put out? Raven is not a rare breeder.

Raven may not be a rare breeder elsewhere but it would be in Norfolk... and one which would attract a lot of attention, much of it detrimental to the bird's welfare... which I would hope is rather more important than whether it's a county tick.
 
Sorry - one on the beach behind Cley North Hide on Monday! (I'd forgotten until I read this!)

Cheers

Andy


Yet more apologies - one recorded on Friday 31st July at Cley on shingle ridge between end of East Bank and North Hide in morning at about 0700.

Should anyone be remotely interested, I have just placed my trip reports and images on my Blog and Website - links below.
 
Raven may not be a rare breeder elsewhere but it would be in Norfolk... and one which would attract a lot of attention, much of it detrimental to the bird's welfare... which I would hope is rather more important than whether it's a county tick.

Do not agree Irene. Birders would show interest in seeing Raven(s) in Norfolk. Once the birds had been seen, I would suspect that interest would dwindle. Further, if breeding or suspected breeding was considered, then the pager services would stop putting out information. Once again we will agree to disagree.:cat::cat:
 
But you are missing the point Black Kite. Ravens will be likely to breed close or within their wintering area. Once the information is out any egger will know where to look for the nest. Its true there are plenty of ravens across the country , but these will be very attractive to eggers who like to have sample clutches from every county in the country. If anyone is that keen to see ravens there are plenty in the Westcountry. The risk just so someone can have a tick is just not worth it. If all goes well and they spread in the future you may be able to garden tick them , but for now other than those who are keeping an eye on the birds there is no need for anyone else to have the information of their location.
 
Last edited:
Good news / bad news

A morning at Cley today. The pager recorded the Hooded Crow as present but 'unwell'. When we eventually spotted it, it was the most active corvid in the field. o:)

Then along to North Hide and there was the adult Crane and this was an adult lacking the bottom part of its left leg. |:(|

Dave
 
But you are missing the point Black Kite. Ravens will be likely to breed close or within their wintering area. Once the information is out any egger will know where to look for the nest. Its true there are plenty of ravens across the country , but these will be very attractive to eggers who like to have sample clutches from every county in the country. If anyone is that keen to see ravens there are plenty in the Westcountry. The risk just so someone can have a tick is just not worth it. If all goes well and they spread in the future you may be able to garden tick them , but for now other than those who are keeping an eye on the birds there is no need for anyone else to have the information of their location.
No tideliner. I think u are missing the point! all information re breeding birds (including ravens) will be public via the bird report. Rumours also go round grapevines and info will come to the attention of eggers. The idea that all info re scarce vistors or potential breeders must always be treated as top secret (if i tell u i will have to kill u!) is misguided and a bit anal! Info has got out re breeding purple heron and little bittern. No harm has been caused and birders have gone away happy. Each situation needs to be looked at on a case by case basis!:cat:
 
all information re breeding birds (including ravens) will be public via the bird report

Public knowlegde that they have bred yes, but I would expect any breeding records, at the very least, will be published without the location. As for the Somerset Little Bitterns, no harm in the end but some rather undesireable behaviour did have local birders fuming and could have been damaging....
 
Public knowlegde that they have bred yes, but I would expect any breeding records, at the very least, will be published without the location. As for the Somerset Little Bitterns, no harm in the end but some rather undesireable behaviour did have local birders fuming and could have been damaging....
Agreed connor. There will always be idiots - the majority have large camera lens. Good reason to keep quiet about the dusky u find this october at holme eh!:cat:
 
HBs - Swanton Novers

Hi folks,

Have there been any recent sightings of HBs at Swanton Novers (or Great Ryburgh)? I haven't seen anything on the news services for a while.

As I have a few days camping with the family in N Norfolk (clever eh?) I thought I would make my annual pilgramage to stand in a field for a couple of hours and not see any Honey Buzzards :-O

I wouldn't want to spoil the running joke by actually seeing one, so if anyone could confirm they are not around that would be appreciated ;)
 
Agreed connor. There will always be idiots - the majority have large camera lens. Good reason to keep quiet about the dusky u find this october at holme eh!:cat:

why r u poking your nose into stuff in & about norfolk , don't u have your own patch , or r u jealous off what great birds & sites we have here , or is yours so drab ,
 
Still being seen at the end of July, although Tideliner can probably give you an update

Hi folks,

Have there been any recent sightings of HBs at Swanton Novers (or Great Ryburgh)? I haven't seen anything on the news services for a while.

.

Without being a killjoy, I think we may have done the breeding bird thing to death.

No-one should publicise sites for breeding birds that are a) Nationally rare, b) rare at county level or c) sensitive to disturbance. Bird reports disclose locations on a case-by-case basis, but as they come out a year later it is possible to determine whether the birds have returned, and how much information is in the public domain at that point.

In the case of the possible breeding of Hoopoe and Raven the information that they may have bred is provocative but as no sites were revealed no harm has been done.

I look forward to reading and contributing some birding related posts soon ;)
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top