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Raptor with white bits, Benacre, Suffolk (1 Viewer)

I watch Marsh Harriers every migration season as they pass through Dubai and I have to say Ive seen a wide variation in plumage from complete chocolate brown to various shades and sizes of cream patches. From the general way this bird is holding its wings, its beak, the legs, shape of wings etc - the 'jizz' of this bird to me is Marsh Harrier. So my guess is that this is a Marsh Harrier, who, just like we sometimes see blackbirds or crows with occoasional white (albino) genes, this Marsh Harrier also has. Pretty bird though!
 
I should start thinking... a Harris' Hawk has a white tailbase which this bird lacks. What's wrong with me today?
Plumage details look OK for Marsh, but still the head shape and bill look weird to me...
 
marek_walford said:
Why is it not a Common Buzzard? The latter photo is definitely a Marsh Harrier.
Click to expand...

It's not a buzzard marek because it's hand and fingers of the wing, legs, tail are all too long. Plumage doesn't fit buzzard. sorry about that after further inspection could be marsh, body looks bulky though.

I really thought it was harris as they hunt low in trees and the one owned be a falconer near me had lots of irregular white patches on it. Not sure though. If it's marsh funny plumage not only white patches but missing any signs of light bits on head.
 
Steven Astley said:
If it's marsh funny plumage not only white patches but missing any signs of light bits on head.
Click to expand...

I think that's exactly what it is. Loks very like a Marsh to me on structure- head looks a bit bulky, but that I think is down to the absence of light markings to break it up.
 
That seems like a bit of a longshot, White-back. I would have thought it would be unusual for a leucistic bird to lose pigment in some areas, and yet completely change pigment in others, i.e. the head. and the white belly of this bird seems too 'deliberate' for a randomly abino bird. There MUST be a bird out there that fits this one!!!
 
J Moss said:
I would have thought it would be unusual for a leucistic bird to lose pigment in some areas, and yet completely change pigment in others, i.e. the head. and the white belly of this bird seems too 'deliberate' for a randomly abino bird.
Click to expand...
No, this does happen - I've seen Blackbirds with completely white regions (e.g. head, or all primaries), very clearly demarcated, and the odd few white feathers scattered elsewhere.
 
What age is this bird?

Note that the secondaries, at least, are frayed and broken which suggests that it is at least in its second calendar year or, more likely, an adult bird.

A juv would have fresh remiges. If its an escaped juv, I wouldn't expect so much damage to its remiges from such a short time in a cage.

So, if this bird is a adult.........

Any thoughts?
 
Further:

Look at the flight shot from below: This bird is in moult and the newer feathers can be seen underneath the old broken feathers. The new feathers are almost as long as the old feathers.

This is not a bird 'of this year'.
 
Real Grosser on my list said:
What age is this bird?

Note that the secondaries, at least, are frayed and broken which suggests that it is at least in its second calendar year or, more likely, an adult bird.

A juv would have fresh remiges. If its an escaped juv, I wouldn't expect so much damage to its remiges from such a short time in a cage.

So, if this bird is a adult.........

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

I wondered about that- but thought that the wear of the tips might have been accelerated due to the weird/weak pigmentation- the location of the wear seems to correspond to areas of where there is (or probably was) white. So could be a young bird showing abnormal wear due to abnormal colour..
 
Saw a Marsh Harrier with extensive white patches in Lancs a couple of years ago, Sue Tranter got pics of it.

Did it look like a Marsh Harrier in the field?

Stephen.
 
Can't get a marsh harrier out of this and, for me, too brown for harris hawk which tend towards a more rufous colouring. Also appears to fly too heavily for harris hawk. I'm verging towards common buzzard, which appears to be best fit for me. Plenty of strangely plumaged common buzzards in Netherlands, similar to this. However, the white underneath seems a very definite pattern. Odd looking bird, but am going to stop as I'll talk myself into it being something else
 
I just read that 'dark form' marsh harriers do occur (sorry for contradicting White-back!) A dark form would mean that the lack of a creamy head does not rule out Marsh H. I see a fair few Marsh H's here in norfolk, and have seen induviduals with variable white marks (although none with a white belly) However, I would still say that this was something else. (how helpfull am I?!!!)
 
white-back said:
I wondered about that- but thought that the wear of the tips might have been accelerated due to the weird/weak pigmentation- the location of the wear seems to correspond to areas of where there is (or probably was) white. So could be a young bird showing abnormal wear due to abnormal colour..
Click to expand...

Naaah mate, not on a juv.

Anyway, how would you explain the new feathers that are almost fully grown?

A juv harrier keeps the remiges it was born with till mid-late summer of the following year.

This bird is likely to be moulting its remiges into adult plumage. The head and body feathers would have moulted already.

So, if this is a Marsh Harrier, it would be in a plumage that should look like an adult. I would expect some adult Marsh Harrier features if that's what it is.

Personally I can't work this bird out. It's not a buzzard on shape and wing length.

If I use the Jedi approach to ID (commonly used on Birdforum!) and had to guess based on nothing more than gut feeling, I would choose the 'Linkin Park' option: Harris Hawk vs Swainsons Hawk?
 
Real Grosser on my list said:
Naaah mate, not on a juv.

Anyway, how would you explain the new feathers that are almost fully grown?

A juv harrier keeps the remiges it was born with till mid-late summer of the following year.

This bird is likely to be moulting its remiges into adult plumage. The head and body feathers would have moulted already.

So, if this is a Marsh Harrier, it would be in a plumage that should look like an adult. I would expect some adult Marsh Harrier features if that's what it is.

Personally I can't work this bird out. It's not a buzzard on shape and wing length.

If I use the Jedi approach to ID (commonly used on Birdforum!) and had to guess based on nothing more than gut feeling, I would choose the 'Linkin Park' option: Harris Hawk vs Swainsons Hawk?
Click to expand...

No dispute about when juveniles moult or how little wear they should show in September. Or that if it has brand new remiges it is not a juvenile.

It's just that I'm not as sure as you are that it is showing new feathers...
 
OK I've been doing some crude measurements here, as I'm unconvinced that this is a Marsh harrier: this bird has a tail length the same as it wing breadth; Marsh harrier's tail should be even longer. This bird's legs reach half the length of its tail - Harris's hawk, despite having long legs, do not reach that far! (Neither does MH).
I think that this is neither, but I think it is possible this is a hybrid of some sort (Maybe MHxHH) & all the abbraision is due to its captive origin.
 
white-back said:
No dispute about when juveniles moult or how little wear they should show in September. Or that if it has brand new remiges it is not a juvenile.

It's just that I'm not as sure as you are that it is showing new feathers...
Click to expand...

Same here, can´t see those new remiges.
 
Real Grosser on my list said:
Further:

Look at the flight shot from below: This bird is in moult and the newer feathers can be seen underneath the old broken feathers. The new feathers are almost as long as the old feathers.

This is not a bird 'of this year'.
Click to expand...

Birds don't grow new feathers underneath exsting ones, they drop the old ones leaving a hole which the new one then grows in to. I too am struggling to see where you're coming from on this, and agree with white-back that the wear seems to correspond to the weaker pigmented parts of the feathers.

All dark marsh harriers are fairly common (i've seen several around The Wash and the East coast this autumn) and the lack of cream crown and throat does not detract from it being a marsh harrier at all. The white feathers/tips to feathers are so un-symmetrical that they cannot possibly be a genuine plumage feature, and anyone searching google for an exotic raptor that matches this will have their work cut out. As this bird is at Benacre, and is pretty destinctive, i'm sure it would have been seen by several local birders already, who i'm sure will have looked at it, and said "ahhh, a partial leucistic marsh harrier!"
 
Hi,

This bird is not Marsh Harrier nor any West Palearctic raptor. Against MH: white belly, white patches on upperwing, too compact, no faintly lighter inner primaries.

What it is I don't know. Harris Hawk, AFAIK, has strongly rufous upperside. You might check dark Swainson's Buzzard or better call local falconry club. :)
 
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