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In a need of advice - 400/5,6L vs 300/4 IS L x 1,4 (1 Viewer)

I

IvoZafirov

Well-known member
Hallo folks!

Despite being on a tight budget I desided that I will stop torturing myself with 75-300/4,5-5,6 IS and will go for an L lense. The big question is which one to choose - 400/5,6 or 300/4 IS with 1,4x. I am mostly photographing (or trying to) birds in action, so I need long range and very fast autofocus. I heard athat 400 is very fast in focusing but 300 has IS and it will be 420 with the 1,4x.Please, give advice on that. Thanx.
 
IvoZafirov said:
I heard athat 400 is very fast in focusing but 300 has IS and it will be 420 with the 1,4x.
Click to expand...
I don't have any experience with the 400, but call the 300 + 1.4x my own. Autofocus is fast, even with the TC, and the IS helps a lot, especially when photographing handheld or with a monopod. Handheld you can get perfectly sharp shots with 1.4x and 1/125 or even 1/60.
I suppose the TC makes the pictures softer, though. But I can't say for sure, since I have never compared the two lenses.
But 300+1.4x is the more expensive alternative, if you are on a really tight budget I don't think you would do anything wrong by purchasing the 400. You would probably just have to rely on the monopod more often.

Personally, If I had to choose again, I would still buy the 300+1.4x.
 
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IvoZafirov said:
Hallo folks!

Despite being on a tight budget I desided that I will stop torturing myself with 75-300/4,5-5,6 IS and will go for an L lense. The big question is which one to choose - 400/5,6 or 300/4 IS with 1,4x. I am mostly photographing (or trying to) birds in action, so I need long range and very fast autofocus. I heard athat 400 is very fast in focusing but 300 has IS and it will be 420 with the 1,4x.Please, give advice on that. Thanx.
Click to expand...
I have the 400mm f5.6 which I like a lot, one thing to consider is weight. I would not want to carry much more in my hand, for example the 100-400mm IS is not a lot heavier but I notice this (don't use the 100-400mm much).

So - consider weight, don't be fooled by IS - with practice you'll be fine without it unless you have a minor genetic problem which some people have (a friend suffers in this area).

You say you photo birds in action - it the light's half-way decent you shouldn't need IS, but I would have paid more for the 400mm f5.6 IS :)
 
Simon HB9DRV said:
So - consider weight, don't be fooled by IS - with practice you'll be fine without it unless you have a minor genetic problem which some people have (a friend suffers in this area).

You say you photo birds in action - it the light's half-way decent you shouldn't need IS, but I would have paid more for the 400mm f5.6 IS :)
Click to expand...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but according to my info the 300/f4 IS is somewhat lighter than the non-IS 400. Of course you have to add the weight of the TC, but the difference shouldn't be noticeable.

If the light is good and you can get a 1/3200s @ f6.3 and ISO 320 you will not need IS, but on those cloudy days or at dusk/dawn it can really make a difference.
 
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If you are trying to take pictures of bird in action (flight?), you will need pretty high shutter speeds. Even if it is not a bright day, you would have to push the ISO up. In this case, the 400mm f/5.6L is the better choice for you. It will focus faster and give you sharper images than a 300mm f/4L with a 1.4x.

You may also want to get a monopod to be able to use the 400mm f/5.6L with slower shutter speeds. I have been able to hand-hold this lens as slow as 1/250, but the success rate is less than 50%. With a self-standing monopod, it is possible to get down to 1/100-1/125 range.
 
UlfL said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but according to my info the 300/f4 IS is somewhat lighter than the non-IS 400. Of course you have to add the weight of the TC, but the difference shouldn't be noticeable.
Click to expand...

Could be - I don't know, just wanted to make the questioner aware of this.

UlfL said:
If the light is good and you can get a 1/3200s @ f6.3 and ISO 320 you will not need IS, but on those cloudy days or at dusk/dawn it can really make a difference.
Click to expand...

Very true - but when it's poor light I can't even find the birds so this hasn't been a criteria for me.
 
macshark said:
If you are trying to take pictures of bird in action (flight?), you will need pretty high shutter speeds. Even if it is not a bright day, you would have to push the ISO up. In this case, the 400mm f/5.6L is the better choice for you. It will focus faster and give you sharper images than a 300mm f/4L with a 1.4x.

You may also want to get a monopod to be able to use the 400mm f/5.6L with slower shutter speeds. I have been able to hand-hold this lens as slow as 1/250, but the success rate is less than 50%. With a self-standing monopod, it is possible to get down to 1/100-1/125 range.
Click to expand...
I'm not trying to take the world's greatest photos, rather ID local birds. I've got down to 1/60 hand-held but as you say success rate is < 50%.

I would like IS on my lens but am not prepared to sacrifice the fast AF and sharpness.
 
Oh dear, here we go again. I recently had a rather heated discussion/debate/ almost argument with Keith on here regarding the relative merits of the 400mm f5.6. It is, in my opinion, and only mine as far as I know, the best value for money lens available for birding. It has very fast AF and can produce nice sharp images in the right conditions.
I have not tried the 300mm f4 IS but I am sure it is a fine lens but I would not want to have to rely on a converter for the extra length. The 300mm is in fact two ounces lighter than the 400mm but more importantly it is, at WE, over £200.00 dearer. Should you choose to buy a Canon converter the difference in price then becomes over £400.00.
I use the 400mm handheld most of the time as I am unable to use a tripod. Sad lack of technique I`m afraid. The amount of shots that I keep will, I suspect, be lower than somebody conversant with a tripod/monopod but I am very happy with it and in the words of somebody from another Forum "You will have to prise it from my cold dead fingers !"
 
if you need a reference for pics taken with the 300f4 try my blog at http://pewit.blogspot.com/ for some action photos---all the Little Gulls are taken witht he 300f4 alone--the waders with 300 f4 and 1.4 and the Roseate Terns with 300 f4 + 1.4 or some perched birds witht he 300f4 and 2x
 
As you see from the comments, both the 400 and the 300+1.4x has their supporters and are excellent lenses. So don't be too troubled, either way you go, you win! |:d|
It is really a matter of what you think will suit your photographic habits and bank account.

1) Buy the cheaper 400 and rely on good light and/or monopod and/or higher ISO.
2) Buy the more expensive 300+1.4 setup, where birds on a distance may be rendered softer as with the 400.
 
Thank you very much for all the answers you gave. I have read a lot of articles dealing with the lences for bird photography but I still was not sure which one to buy despite that I had my thoughts around 400/5,6. Now I am sure that I am buing it. I would better compromise with the shooting opportunities than with the sharpness and the fast AF. Thanks again to all of you.
 
UlfL said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but according to my info the 300/f4 IS is somewhat lighter than the non-IS 400. Of course you have to add the weight of the TC, but the difference shouldn't be noticeable.

If the light is good and you can get a 1/3200s @ f6.3 and ISO 320 you will not need IS, but on those cloudy days or at dusk/dawn it can really make a difference.
Click to expand...

Correct Ulfl,
in any case I personally don't feel weight is that great issue; I've tried both the 300mm non-IS and the 400mm with the extender on and I didn't find them so cumbersome or overweighted for flight shots (and for hiking around with your kit on your neck) ... true that you won't handhold them for a long time, but I noticed that improving your handhold technique is the best recipe to get a fair share of keepers!

In detail:

  • EF 300mm f/4 L: 1,165 g
  • EF 300mm f/4 L IS: 1,190 g
  • EF 400mm f/5.6 L: 1,250 g

  • EF Extender 1.4x II: 220 g

Obviously close sujects suffer less of lens/hand shaking, and in a few occasions my handheld pics were not so different from my monopod pics.
I've not tried the 300mm IS, but I really enjoyed my 300mm (handheld), especially when shooting in woods at short range or with poorer light

As already pointed out, available light makes the difference: I found that a 400mm f/5.6 is better than a 420mm f/5.6 in terms of AF AND sharpness.
I currently use the 400mm + TC 1.4x almost all the time and I don't miss IS or cry for the loss of sharpness, the only cons is a bit of hunting when AFing in poor light or with poorly contrasted, very small subjects.

Conclusion: both lenses are great, results will definitely satisfy you whichever way you go
Cheers,
Max
 
IvoZafirov said:
I had my thoughts around 400/5,6. Now I am sure that I am buing it.
Click to expand...
I am sure you will not be disappointed.
gmax said:
  • EF 300mm f/4 L: 1,165 g
  • EF 300mm f/4 L IS: 1,190 g
Click to expand...
Didn't know the IS added just 25 grams to the 300. Very well spent 25g then |;|.
Cheers,
Ulf
 
Dobar den Ivo,

I believe the 400mm f5.6 would be the best choice, as with the 300mm f4 you would probably find the need for a 1.4x to be almost permanently attached, and it does reduce quality (not much but it does) and AF speed.
I have seen some superb images taken with it, it seems a remarkably sharp lens.

As to discussions on the weight of these lenses it seems an irrelevance to me. I can happily handhold my 300mm f2.8 with or without extenders all day. It's only when using my 600mm f4 that the tripod or monopod is needed to support the weight.
 
I own the Canon 300mm IS USM lens with a 1.4x converter. I find this an incredibly fast sharp lens, this is the only equipment I take on holidays abroad, see my website for images using this setup especially Florida section.

www.tomtamsbirdimages.co.uk

Tom
 
IvoZafirov said:
Gmax, do you have AF with 400+1,4x?
Click to expand...

Well, technically a lens with an F/ number above 5.6 loses AF with a 350D; when you add a 1.4x TC to the 400mm f/5.6 you lose one stop (two stops with a 2x), so you get f/8 > NO AF.
BUT taping the pins on your converter lets you maintain AF (other threads here will teach you how in detail, in any case it's the three upper leftmost pins on the TC on the lens side, not the camera side), even though it gets a bit slower and less accurate ... it tends to hunt a bit in poor light (dusk, dawn, cloudy sky ...) or with poorly contrasted subjects.
Another option is using a non reporting TC, such as Kenko etc (do a search here in BF, this subject has already been widely discussed)
I didn't find it a big problem, therefore I almost always use this lens with the TC (prefocusing before shooting helps a lot) and I managed to get some good results even when shooting flyers, you just have to get used to it and know in advance its limits ... then it gets a very enjoyable lens!
Cheers,
Max
 
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