[Raptor-man]

If you both like Prairie Falcons have you seen this book

http://www.amazon.com/Prairie-Falcon.../dp/0292704747

I don't own it yet its waiting to be bought so couldn't review it sorry.

Two reference books I'll never part with

Owls of the world, Claus Konig et al

Raptors of the World, Ferguson-Lees et al

[idaho john]

Raptor-man: I sure have seen that book (Prairie Falcon - Anderson) and love it. I have read it twice and am now on a review of it again, but just reading a paragraph or two in the late evenings.

I just got the Ferguson & Lees Guide - but not the original, but the smaller (thinner?) guide with all the plates. I love it.

I am waiting for the new "Hawks in Flight," by Pete Dunne and illustrations by David Sibley due for release here in the states in September of this year.

Purchased the Wheeler "Guide to Raptors of Western North America," earlier in the year and enjoy that as well.

Lots of stuff to whet the appetite for birding when you are stuck in the house on the long, cold days of winter!

As always feel free to add on as you find more resources...

[idaho john]

"The American Kestrel is the only New World species termed "kestrel". Actually, the molecular data of Groombridge[2] as well as morphological peculiarities (like grey wings in males and a black ear-spot) and biogeography, strongly support the view that this species, among the Falco falcons, is not a kestrel at all in the phylogenetic sense but perhaps closer to the hobbies." Quote from Wikipedia section on Kestrels.

I don't remember if this was the thread where Swissboy (or someone) told me that the Hobby was not like the American Kestrel - I think in response to my observation that the two seemed to be very much alike and that the American Kestrel reminds me of Hobbies. The assertion I made was based in part on the quote noted above. And some observations of clips on You Tube featuring Hobbies calling - which sound very much like American Kestrels, and viewing pics of Hobbies catching insects on the wing and observing American Kestrels doing the same behavior. This is not scientific evidence by any stretch of the imagination. Because if I can make a definitive statement that Hobbies and Kestrels are the same thing (other than small falcons) just by observing social media, then I am going to have my doctor do my colonoscopy by watching you tube as well.

But American Kestrels and Hobbies do seem quite similar to me.

John

[njlarsen]

Falcons and their phylogenetic relationships have been discussed a couple of times in other birdforum threads:
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread....hlight=falcons
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=173149
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread....hlight=falcons

Niels

[ed keeble]

I haven't had chance to browse those links just posted, so apologies if the point is covered there. But I have seen it writ that American Kestrel may be more closely grouped with Amur Falcon / Red-footed Falcon than with the old world Kestrels.

Tom Cade's Falcons of the World is good source of material on relationships, although out-of-date now.

[Swissboy]

Originally Posted by ed keeble

........that American Kestrel may be more closely grouped with Amur Falcon / Red-footed Falcon than with the old world Kestrels.

.........

After a recent extensive visit to North America, and having been struck again just how much the American Kestrel reminds me of the European one, I find it hard to see how someone could come up with such ideas.

Under such circumstances, I'm always reminded of the silly pressures of the "publish or perish" system. Way too much forced originality has got to do with that problem, I'm afraid.

[vaubu]

I was happy to find Wheeler's Guides for North American Raptors going for under $30 a piece new:

Eastern
http://www.acornnaturalists.com/stor...P3461C595.aspx

Western
http://www.acornnaturalists.com/stor...P3462C595.aspx

[jedigrant]

Wow, that's a great deal! I haven't noticed them for that low in a long time. From what I understand, I wouldn't hold my breath on them being reprinted. So if anyone doesn't have these, you should jump on this.
For my money, these are still the best overall guides to the raptors of North America ("overall" in the sense that they don't only focus on raptors in flight, which has been done better by Liguori and Dunne, Sibley and Sutton).

[Swissboy]

At least the Eastern book is already gone at Acornnaturalists. I was still able to order, but I then got an e-mail telling me that it was still on the list by mistake.

[Swissboy]

Originally Posted by jedigrant

...... So if anyone doesn't have these, you should jump on this.
For my money, these are still the best overall guides to the raptors of North America ........

Just got my "Western" book which I had ordered earlier. I'm really very much impressed. So I'm looking around for an "Eastern" volume as well if I can find it at a reasonable price. Too bad the source given by vaubu is no longer having them. I very much like the info on the various subspecies.

[ceasar]

Originally Posted by Swissboy

Just got my "Western" book which I had ordered earlier. I'm really very much impressed. So I'm looking around for an "Eastern" volume as well if I can find it at a reasonable price. Too bad the source given by vaubu is no longer having them. I very much like the info on the various subspecies.

Robert,

FWIW the Western version has everything (and much more) that the Eastern version has in it.

Bob

[Swissboy]

Originally Posted by ceasar

Robert,

FWIW the Western version has everything (and much more) that the Eastern version has in it.

Bob

Thanks Bob, I kind of suspected it. But the range maps do not show the eastern parts of North America. And I love those in the volume I have. So I hope the other one will be as detailed. I suspect there are not a lot of additional species.

One thing I noted in my book. It has a 2003 publishing date, not the 2007 one I ordered. Is there a big difference between the editions?

[ceasar]

I had forgotten about the range maps. They are quite useful.

Both my books were published in 2003. There seems to be some confusion over when the paperback editions were published.

I believe that the 2007 version is the paperback edition of the 2003 hardback Eastern Edition. I have the Eastern Edition in Cloth/Hardback. It was published in 2003.

Info here for the Eastern Editions from Princeton:

http://press.princeton.edu/titles/7597.html

And this for the Western Editions:

http://press.princeton.edu/titles/7502.html

As you can see it shows the paperback as being published in 2007 but my paperback copy was published in 2003.

Bob

[Swissboy]

Originally Posted by ceasar

........ paperback as being published in 2007 but my paperback copy was published in 2003.

Bob

Thanks Bob for this background info. Seems they did not even change the printing date then, just issued the same as a paperback.

Or did you actually buy the paperback before the 2007 date?

[ceasar]

Originally Posted by Swissboy

Thanks Bob for this background info. Seems they did not even change the printing date then, just issued the same as a paperback.

Or did you actually buy the paperback before the 2007 date?

It's possible but I don't think so. I bought the Eastern Edition hard copy first, probably in 2006 at a Barnes and Noble. It was in the store. I ordered the Western Edition from B & N a year or so after that.

Bob