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Cornell Lab Review - Zeiss Did Very Well Here (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Waxwingz
- Start date
Zeiss is surely limited in its resources, just perhaps not as severely as is Leica. Their bread and butter these days is eyeglass lenses, I believe, followed by industrial metrology. Binoculars are a small part of the operation, subject to the same corporate resource allocation standards as the rest of the business. That argues against any quick fixes or dramatic product line renewals, especially as there is not much gain to be had here.
Better focusers, while surely a worthy goal, are unlikely to transform the competitive landscape.
mjensen6577
Well-known member
Giji's facts are not accurate and paint a very false picture of the HD, from some "anonymous" 3rd party source?? I personally would like to know this "unnamed source". A PM is fine. Also, Zeiss isn't going away 
. We're a 7 billion dollar company with the Boards direction of investing millions into Sports Optics. This kind of chit-chat is why I enjoy BF... it makes for really good entertaining reads over a cup of coffee.
. We're a 7 billion dollar company with the Boards direction of investing millions into Sports Optics. This kind of chit-chat is why I enjoy BF... it makes for really good entertaining reads over a cup of coffee.
Hermann
Well-known member
Well, for a long, long time Zeiss was *the* leading maker of high-quality binoculars and was seen as such by anyone who wanted to buy a premium binocular. For almost 100 years, in fact. And they reinvested a healthy part of their profits in R & D to improve their products further. When did the 20x60S come out? Something like 20 years ago? They got a patent on that stabilizer at the time. Or the FL's, at the time probably the best roofs on the world market? Some 10 years ago?
But then they got complacent, I'd say some ten years ago or so. Probably earlier. It took them almost 10 years to react once Leica had brought out the Trinovid BA around 1990. They stopped working on their product lines. The 20x60S, for instance, a unique binocular if there ever was one, was never updated. The FL's were also never really updated when many users began asking for better sharpness at the edge. So Zeiss was overtaken by Swarovski, a company that only fairly recently began getting into the market of high-end roofs.
Today the top end of the market is dominated by Swarovski, not Zeiss. Today most power users don't buy Zeiss anymore, they buy Swarovski. Simply because Zeiss only has a small number of binoculars that can compete with the Swarovskis on an even level. And, apart from the HT 8x42 and 10x42 and possibly the FL 8x56, there's not a single binocular that is leading in its class. Alright, there's the 20x60S that never became a great success for a number of reasons, the main one being that it's too large and heavy to replace smaller binoculars and doesn't have enough magnification to replace a scope. It's neither fish nor flesh. But there's no 8x32, there's no compact, there's no scope. And there are *no* binoculars that are sharp from edge to edge.
If Zeiss doesn't get going pretty soon, they won't have a market to sell new high-end products to when they're finally ready. If they ever get ready. After all, R & D costs a lot of money, and if you don't sell enough binoculars you won't have the money to invest in R & D. And it's the high-end binoculars where the profit margins are largest.
Zeiss may get by selling binoculars like the Conquest or the Terra under their brand name, at least for a time. But if there's no premium product bearing the name Zeiss anymore, it's quite obvious that the value of the brand name will diminish.
Hermann
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Hermann
Well-known member
If you say Gijs' facts are not right, I've got to believe you. After all, you must know.
But you didn't really say what the facts are. So, could you state whether the Conquest HD and also its components are made in Germany?
Hermann
Wow. Just wow!
Mike's right. If nothing else, at least this place is entertaining (but also every that's wrong with internet forums along with a few things that are right).
Know why I don't own any Swaro bins? Because they don't make one that I like enough to own. The SLC's are nice but the HT is better IMO. The CL has an odd design and rather narrow FOV. The EL has a rolling ball issue for me that makes them unusable. You know what I don't care about? Statements like, "...half of the birders used Swaros..." That's somehow supposed to settle this claim from a few people with an apparent agenda?
Mike's right. If nothing else, at least this place is entertaining (but also every that's wrong with internet forums along with a few things that are right).
Know why I don't own any Swaro bins? Because they don't make one that I like enough to own. The SLC's are nice but the HT is better IMO. The CL has an odd design and rather narrow FOV. The EL has a rolling ball issue for me that makes them unusable. You know what I don't care about? Statements like, "...half of the birders used Swaros..." That's somehow supposed to settle this claim from a few people with an apparent agenda?
In the real world Swarovski make their profits as a global concern trading in fashion jewellery (with two or three multi-storey, high turnover shops rammed full of tourists in Vienna alone), designer jewellery, crystal jewellery and accessories, synthetic and natural gemstones, top-end chandeliers, reflectors, cats-eyes and road marking studs, lighting, and corporate gifts.
james holdsworth
Consulting Biologist
Bizarre.
Most people here would agree that Zeiss, at the moment, is really kicking it - with class leading alphas, mid-tier and lower tier bins. And, according to Mike, more new stuff coming this winter and spring - hopefully including a fleshed-out line of HT's, such as a 56 mm line and maybe a premium 32 mm.
I haven't seen this much new product and innovation from Zeiss since the FL in 2004. I'm quite excited about the future line-up.
Zeiss dominated with their classics, from the 80's into the 90's. Then the EL dominated until 2004, then the FL series dominated, then, in 2010, the SV series dominated. Maybe the next few years will be Zeiss, who knows.........maybe Leica will actually invest in updating their line-up!
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Hermann
Well-known member
You know what? I've at the moment got some seven Zeiss binoculars, three Hensoldts (German army issue, made by Zeiss), one Leica and two Nikon SE's. I don't have *any* Swarovski, although I'm tempted to get a Habicht 8x30 sometime. I don't like the Swarovisions for a variety of reasons, and I also prefer the HT over the SLC.
So you don't like the facts? Over here in Europe it seems to be Swarovski all the way nowadays. I do get around a bit, and it's surprising to see how many people use Swarovskis. In the 1980s about half the birders I met used Zeiss, mainly the 10x40 BGAT. Those times are gone. Last weekend I saw 8 people use Zeiss binoculars out of about 100: 1x 7x42 BGATP, 3x Victory 10x40, 2x Conquest HD, 1x 10x42 FL, 1x 10x40 BGATP. There were over 50 people using various Swarovski roofs.
As far as an agenda is concerned: I don't have one. Not really. And if I had one, it would be to get the Zeiss people in Oberkochen and Wetzlar to wake up and start putting a bit more effort into their lineup once again.
Hermann
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Hermann is right but a couple of years behind the curve. As James points out Zeiss are moving in the right direction now.
The three tier structure of Victory on top, Conquest in the middle and Terra below is now well established in the States for bins and rifle scopes (and I am sure will be rolled out across the globe) and we can expect more gaps to be filled-in during 2014.
As Hermann points out, there is a big hill to climb, but I am confident that Zeiss has the determination to see this through. No doubt there will be hiccups along the way, after all if Swaro can stumble when it comes to focusers then Zeiss can trip over an eyecup or two.
Lee
The three tier structure of Victory on top, Conquest in the middle and Terra below is now well established in the States for bins and rifle scopes (and I am sure will be rolled out across the globe) and we can expect more gaps to be filled-in during 2014.
As Hermann points out, there is a big hill to climb, but I am confident that Zeiss has the determination to see this through. No doubt there will be hiccups along the way, after all if Swaro can stumble when it comes to focusers then Zeiss can trip over an eyecup or two.
Lee
james holdsworth
Consulting Biologist
I agree, and I did feel like Hermann just a few years ago. It seemed as though Zeiss had almost given up to Swaro. I certainly don't feel that now, and with [arguable] the best roof in the world to build on, I think they are on the right track. I'm sure there is lots of good stuff coming - and that is according to Mike Jensen, not this fanboy.
BTW, I willingly admit the eyecups on the HD lines were poorly thought out and executed. Look at the eyecups on the HTs and Terras and you wonder who at Zeiss signed off on the Conquest HD eyecups. Even the old Conquest eyecups were far better.
But, as I've posted here in the past, Zeiss is working on a redesign according to USA customer service and should be available by the beginning of the year. Will be sent at no charge to anyone who wants to change them out.
Perhaps Mike can give us more specifics?
But, as I've posted here in the past, Zeiss is working on a redesign according to USA customer service and should be available by the beginning of the year. Will be sent at no charge to anyone who wants to change them out.
Perhaps Mike can give us more specifics?
Well, what I mean is: There is no need to "downplay" the Conquest through its alleged place of manufacture - since if it doesn't focus accurately, it does downplay itself
The focus drift problem has been mentioned here before, and is a frequent topic on the German Juelich-Bonn forum. It is also described in one of my publications for a German astronomer's journal, in which I tested the Conquest HD against the Swarovski SV. I have been in contact with Zeiss about that problem and was informed (that was more than a year ago) that it had been solved. Yet, single reports about that are still popping up in the user reports, some reporting that the focus was fine initially and turned inaccurate after several months of usage. It is better to keep an eye on that.
@Pompadour: Kamakura Koki makes the Nikon Monarch, among many other medium range binoculars. Their best products are made in Japan, others in Kamakura owned Chinese plants.
Cheers,
Holger
I am one of those users with the focus drift. My Conquest HD 8x32 worked flawless for 3-4 months. Then there was a very subtile blur on the left eye while focusing from close to the distance. Within a few days the problem becomes more and more serious. It ended up with the result that the binocular was useless. Even after the care from Zeiss Service the problem still exist. So i sended it to Zeiss again.
eddy the eagle
Well-known member
Hi Lee I didn't know you had problems with your eyecups on the HT's,how does it manifest itself?...Eddy
