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Truncated exit pupils/vignetting (1 Viewer)

jremmons

Wildlife Biologist
All,

To me, allbinos has always been an interesting read - not for their overall rankings, but just as an attempt at an unbiased and objective site. One 'measurement' I really don't understand is exit pupils/vignetting, however. Can anyone really explain what this means to me? I've read past comments from someone (I think Henry Link) who mentioned it pertains more to quality control or something as opposed to actual design flaws, but I'm still not sure how so-called truncated exit pupils would affect the actual view in the binoculars.

J
 
Usually from prisms too small so causing squared off exit pupils.
Also caused by different prism glass types.
View is less bright than it should be in dimmer light I think.
Very noticed in old Porroprism binoculars.

12x50 Alpin is reckoned to be 12x42. Exit pupils look weird. But still a good binocular. Light weight.
See Holger Merlitz review.
 
Has something to do with the manufacturers use of small prisms and [not the quality of the prism used].

He discussed this in his review of the Pentax 10x43 DCF ED Binocular in which 8 points were lost due to the apparent vignetting. And 8 out 8 points were awarded for the quality of the prism s.

Note: The set of Pentax 10x43 DCF ED I have on hand is nowhere as bad as the sample he tested (the vignetting in this pair is very mild) and I can not discern any optical abnormalities as a result of the vignetting. Optically they are quite sound. View is excellent.

*Although Allbinos reviews are for the most part objective I find they are somewhat biased toward binoculars with field flattener technology no points are deducted for rolling ball and the pancake effect (loss of 3D definition) associated with this technology.

*Furthermore these tests cannot account for sample variation between sets i.e. the sample he tested in his review of the Pentax 10x43 DCF ED shows very bad vignetting and my pair does not.

*I can't believe a 1 or 2 % truncation of the exit pupil is a problem in a Binocular with a exit pupil of 4mm or more (user setting of the IPD being far more crucial).

Vignetting
Left: Right:
Pentax DCF ED 10x43 - Vignetting - Left Pentax DCF ED 10x43 - Vignetting - Right OL: 7.1%, OR: 6.6%
Very truncated exit pupils. 0/8.0
Prisms quality Good quality BaK-4. 8/8.0
Antireflection coatings Pink-orange on objectives, greenish on prisms, green-purple on eyepieces. Low intensity. 5/5.0

Pros:
solid and compact casing,
good transmission,
correct colour rendering,
chromatic aberration well-corrected,
negligible astigmatism,
splendidly corrected distortion,
exit pupils on dark background,
low brightness loss on the edge of the field of vision,
high quality of prisms and coatings,
clean, correctly blackened inner tubes,
long warranty perriod.

Cons:
significantly truncated exit pupils.


As the lists of pros and cons show very clearly the Pentax ED 10x43 has only one but a very painful slip-up which is connected to small prisms – they make the exit pupils very truncated. The binoculars lost as many as 8 points in this category. If it hadn’t been for this slip-up the device would have been given 140 points – with such a score it would have been one of the most interesting choices in the 10x42 class. We must emphasize, though, that the current result of 132 points is still very good. The problem is that similar number of points was awarded to many other pairs of binoculars which cost more or less the same and were produced by as reputable companies as Pentax. It’s enough to mention here such instruments as the Meopta Meostar, the Minox HG 10x43 BR MIG, the Kahles, the Kowa or the Swarovski Habicht. Undoubtedly select company - without the exit pupils slip-up the Pentax could have offered a bit more than them. Unfortunately, these exit pupils being as they are, might make some prospective customers buy the product of a rival company.

When it comes to other achievements the Pentax can be only praised. The binoculars are put in a compact, handy casing, the device features ED glass in objectives which works very well; the astigmatism and distortion are corrected in a splendid way and the coma – quite well. The coatings are very efficient, providing good transmission level, natural colours, and damping down unwanted flares. If it wasn’t for these wretched pupils we would deal here with a real market hit.
 
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Design fault, weight saving, but also I think as a result of the collimation process.
If not slightly oversize then aligning binoculars may bring about one side cut offs.
Prism glass material is also relevant.
 
I think the description by zzzz and binastro is very similar to what arrek uses, but I could've sworn someone else mentioned it wasn't a design flaw, just a flaw in production (ie sample variation).
 
I think the description by zzzz and binastro is very similar to what arrek uses, but I could've sworn someone else mentioned it wasn't a design flaw, just a flaw in production (ie sample variation).

Binny did mention that if the prisms are not sllightly 'oversize' then a slight misalignment during assembly and collimation could result in this truncation. Perhaps this is what you remember.

Lee
 
So this is a loss of the area of the exit pupil, reducing the amount of light to the eye?

Lee

During daylight viewing the pupil size is anywhere between 2 to 4 mm. Average is 3.3 mm for most adults.

Setting the IPD correctly is crucial ... a mildly truncated 4.3mm exit pupil is not going to make a difference.

nit·pick·ing
ˈnitˌpikiNG/Submit
informal
adjective
1.
looking for small or unimportant errors or faults, especially in order to criticize unnecessarily.
"a nitpicking legalistic exercise"
 
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I will concide perfectly round exit pupil s are my preference. :eat:

Nitpicking aside :brains:
 
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I think the description by zzzz and binastro is very similar to what arrek uses, but I could've sworn someone else mentioned it wasn't a design flaw, just a flaw in production (ie sample variation).

I think it was Henry, and he described it as an artifact of the collimation process and not a design flaw.

An example of this was Allbinos critique of the Conquest 8x32 HD, which showed truncated exit pupils. I presented photos of my sample that has perfectly circular pupils - so definitely not characteristic of the model. Allbinos is bad for using pretty sketchy criteria, often pointed out by experts but never adjusted in any way.
 
I think it was Henry, and he described it as an artifact of the collimation process and not a design flaw.

An example of this was Allbinos critique of the Conquest 8x32 HD, which showed truncated exit pupils. I presented photos of my sample that has perfectly circular pupils - so definitely not characteristic of the model. Allbinos is bad for using pretty sketchy criteria, often pointed out by experts but never adjusted in any way.

Yes James, I thought it was Henry. I also wondered what not having perfectly round eps would do in terms of actual viewing performance. I've wondered the same about their false exit pupil comments.
 
Hi,

truncated exit pupils are only a real design flaw in the case of the diamond shaped exit pupils indicating the use of BK7 glass as prism material in fast instruments (f5 or lower - most bins are faster, most spotting scopes are slower).

Source: an old thread with posts from Henry Link: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=156753

In case of the little vignetting usually shown in more thorough tests this is mainly a quality control issue - although seasoned designers not ruled by controllers and business consultants might indeed be able to make the instrument more tolerant by using slightly oversized prisms.

Joachim
 
I will concide perfectly round exit pupil s are my preference. :eat:

Nitpicking aside :brains:

LOL

Nitpicking Part 2: to dilate is to enlarge so eye can't dilate down to 2-4mm but do dilate to a larger size.

And if I have spent money on obtaining bins with a certain exit pupil my preference to get the full 9 yards. :-O

Lee :t:
 
Firstly, truncated pupils are definitely noticeable with darker images unless minimal. Even my eyes exceed 4.3mm on dull days.
A very good maker, such as Leica may make the mechanicals almost precisely parallel, so collimation will only introduce small movements. This means slightly smaller prisms are sufficient than with less well designed and less well made brands and the exit pupils will still not be truncated, and the star images more precise.

I am disappointed with the Conquest 8x32 HD because of the light pillar above a full moon or street light. It can be overcome by masking the bottom of the barrels. I will see if it is also due to smaller prisms. It might be cured by putting hoods on the front, but this is untidy.
You really cannot tell about ghosting until you try a binocular. It is possible some illustrious Swarovski or other models do this, price not withstanding. But I cannot test every model.

With truncated exit pupils and lower transmission, you get distinctly dull images in poor light.

The strange 5x25 Russian roof prism binocular has 30mm objectives maybe for a reason. The exit pupils are 5mm.
 
Firstly, truncated pupils are definitely noticeable with darker images unless minimal. Even my eyes exceed 4.3mm on dull days.

Regardless the 42 mm class binocular is my hands down favorite the 50 and 56 mm class binocular s are too heavy and bulky for my needs.

Note: I found my Leica 8x42 Ultravid HD Plus binocular brighter in all conditions than my Leica 7x42 Ultravid HD binocular even though the latter has a larger exit pupil.
 
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Absolutely.
It is only by using a binocular that you find out if it suits you and your needs or not.

Reviews, tests, opinions are only what they are.
They are made by different people, different eyes and for different uses.
However, if many people hold a particular model of binocular in high regard, then it is worth trying it out to see if it meets your needs.


It may be that your eyes don't normally exceed 5.2mm in the observations that you make.
 
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The so-called truncated exit pupils in Allbinos reviews happen when the objective lens aperture, eyepiece and prism apertures don't align so that they all share same optical center. In binoculars it will vary with each individual specimen depending on how much eccentricity has to be applied to achieve collimation. It's one of the things I just ignore when I read their reviews.
 
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The so-called truncated exit pupils in Allbinos reviews happen when the objective lens aperture, eyepiece and prism apertures don't align so that they all share same optical center. In binoculars it will vary with each individual specimen depending on how much eccentricity has to be applied to achieve collimation. It's one of the things I just ignore when I read their reviews.

Thanks Henry, I've always ignored it as well. Does having a truncated pupil cause viewing issues (e.g. reduced brightness as mentioned by Binastro)?

J
 
Whenever I see those oval shaped exit pupils, I figure that some element or prism has a slight horizontal shift. The guy (or gal) who's assembling the bin isn't sure which element or prism is the one that's shifted, so he or she simply ignores the shift and goes about their regular collimating regime. Over in the photography world, folks will describe a camera lens with a similarly shifted element as being "decentered", and a certain edge or two may be softer than normal. Anyway, that's how I always thought of it. I could be wrong...
 
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