Ruddy Duck Cull (1 Viewer)

Jasonbirder · Sep 16, 2004

Following on from the recent RSPB poll, can anyone who feels strongly anti-cull Discuss it here, As i`ve a few very simple things that people can do to help me out... (Very little time and no money required so don`t be shy!!! ) I have a few ideas of things that can be done to torpedo the cull - so please help out. If you like Ruddies its worth a try even if it comes to nothing!

jurek · Sep 16, 2004

The Ruddy Duck cull would be already over and forgotten, if it began immediately when Ruddy Ducks first started crossbreeding in Spain. Unfortunately, several organisations started "delaying" the cull and checking unlikely alternatives to shooting. Meanwhile, the ducks were breeding. The result of such "care" is that several times as many ducks need to be shot, no matter the bigger cost.

If you plan more such "helping" the birds, better not! Do something in one of hundreds of other bird-kill related matters in which case is clear.

Jasonbirder · Sep 16, 2004

I appreciate the sentiment - on the other hand here in the UK the Ruddies are an attractive addition to our fauna and well liked by many (though not all!) Blasting away at flocks of them in winter just isn`t the way forward in my humble opinion....

Mike Pennington · Sep 16, 2004

Jasonbirder said:
I appreciate the sentiment - on the other hand here in the UK the Ruddies are an attractive addition to our fauna and well liked by many (though not all!) Blasting away at flocks of them in winter just isn`t the way forward in my humble opinion....

But what is the way forward?

And what is the argument for NOT culling an alien species?

They're cute?

jurek · Sep 16, 2004

But I'm sure you have lots of other cute birds which need help but don't do un-cute things in Spain.

Just writing a polite letter to the angling forum about discarded fishing line could save many ducks and swans

.

Jasonbirder · Sep 16, 2004

No the argument is that large-scale shoots (and we`re talking blasting away with shotguns - not surgical strikes with high velocity rifles!) at some of our most cherished wetland sites during the non-breeding season would cause tremendous harm and disruption to internationally important numbers of wintering wildfowl.
It presents an extremely poor image of our conservation efforts in all areas to the wider public at large, who won`t understand the issues involved.
And will ultimately be unsuccesful anyway - there is no practical way to ensure substantial numbers do not escape the cull - if success cannot be guaranteed then what is the hjustification for instigating the cull?

David Bryant · Sep 16, 2004

Since Ruddy Ducks are proven Transatlantic vagrants, what's to stop a randy Yank or fifty dropping down in Spain after the cull? The whole thing smells of 'euro-politic' to me! Shall we cull all Mallards in case they further dilute the US Black Duck gene pool?

jurek · Sep 16, 2004

If you try to delay the cull, you will only increase disturbance for the birds. If you don't care about Britain, remember about Spain. Ruddy Ducks will be shot there. If you let them breed in Britain, you cause disturbance in Spain.

BTW, wildfowl can stand considerable disturbance. Many (most?) internationally important wildfowl sites are hunted - for nothing else than sport. Why this is ignored?

The worst thing altogether is to try to delay or slow the cull. More ducks to be shot, more disturbance, for longer time, less chance of success, more damage to image of conservation efforts. Exactly what nobody wants.

Keith Reeder · Sep 16, 2004

jurek said:
Just writing a polite letter to the angling forum about discarded fishing line could save many ducks and swans .

I see the smiley...

Writing a letter like that won't help because tackle is never "discarded" by good anglers (bad or careless anglers aren't anglers anyway, and I'd gladly shoot the buggers myself) - it's accidentally lost line etc. that causes problems.

And it's compounded exponentially by people habitually feeding waterfowl like they were pets instead of wild animals, with the result that they lose their fear of man, associate anybody on the bank with a free feed, and get tangled up with angler's gear as a result.

(Just making the point a bit more politely than what you'd get on an angling site!

)

Anyway, back on topic...

I'm very confused about the ruddy duck cull - I am 100% in agreement with Jason that there's no guarantee it'll be even remotely successful.

I'd never even considered the "collateral damage" that would in all probability ensue.

Nobody ever seems to mention things like egg pricking or removal as an alternative to a gun-based cull: surely approaches like these have at least as much chance of working?

On balance, I feel that it's a terrible plan made for all the right reasons...

Mike Pennington · Sep 16, 2004

David Bryant said:
Since Ruddy Ducks are proven Transatlantic vagrants,

Interesting. I didn't know this. Where have the proven vagrants occurred?

Alan Hobson · Sep 16, 2004

Well said David Bryant - it does indeed smack of Euro-politic! I suspect one of the main motives for the cull is to show Spain and the rest of the EU what "good Europeans" we are.

Mike Pennington's post [post 4], taken to its logical end, would mean he should be in favour of culling all "alien" species - but somehow I don't think he'd support going round blasting Little Owls out of trees.

Jason [post 6] gives some good reasons for not culling, but oddly misses out some other good points he has made elsewhere. Two of the main reasons for opposing a cull are a) there is no conclusive eidence that it is British Ruddy Ducks cross-breeding with the Spanish population, and b) Ruddy Ducks are an attractive and welcome addition to the British countryside - they enhance it. As do Little Owls, Red-legged Partridges and many other "alien" species.

godwit · Sep 16, 2004

"Since Ruddy Ducks are proven Transatlantic vagrants"

Are they?

Dave

Edward woodwood · Sep 16, 2004

The Ruddy Duck cull is the right thing to do

White-headeded Ducks need conserving and this is the reason for the cull - all the necessary info is in Baz Hughes paper referred to in the RSPB thread.

I had hoped birders would be full square behind this but realised several years ago several wouldn't. The arguments were over years ago. Objections now are on sentimental grounds and bad science.

I find this depressing.

Edward woodwood · Sep 16, 2004

This is in the paper, please can folks read it before posting any more 'facts'

DNA fingerprinting has recently proven that birds in Spain do not originate from North America

Edward woodwood · Sep 16, 2004

On the origin of the species

the fact that the incidence of Ruddy Duck records in Europe mirrors the growth of the UK population, that Ruddy Duck records abroad are concentrated in countries close to the UK, and that there are now annual spring and summer records of Ruddy Ducks on the Northern Isles and in Iceland, all suggest that Ruddy Ducks in continental Europe originate mainly from the UK feral population. They may be in the early stages of developing the long distance north-south migratory strategy shown by their ancestors in North America.

and on the problem.....

At present, hybridisation between Ruddy Ducks and White-headed Ducks is only occurring in the western Mediterranean, and local control of Ruddy Ducks and hybrids in Spain, Portugal, Morocco and France is reducing the threat. This effort is becoming increasingly difficult as Ruddy Duck numbers in Europe, and in the UK in particular, increase. If Ruddy Ducks enter the Asian White-headed Duck population in any numbers, control would be logistically impossible.

Jasonbirder · Sep 16, 2004

White-headed Ducks do need conserving - no argument there!

Just a thought though - if Ruddy Ducks are persucuted severely here - might that not make them more not less prone to dispersal?

Mike Pennington · Sep 16, 2004

Jasonbirder said:
White-headed Ducks do need conserving - no argument there!

Just a thought though - if Ruddy Ducks are persucuted severely here - might that not make them more not less prone to dispersal?

Which is why the cull is not confined to Britain.

Jasonbirder · Sep 16, 2004

Is it not true that the Cull was to a certain extent motivated politically - as I understand it Spain used the Ruddy Ducks as a counter to criticism it received as to its protection of the Spanish Steppes - pointing out that how can it be expected to protect birds such as the Black Vulture while its White-headed Ducks were being threatened by Ruddy Ducks from Britain....

Mike Pennington · Sep 16, 2004

Sorry, I have asked for a good reason for not carrying out the cull and there has still been nothing put forward other than bad science and sentiment.

The argument that it is bad PR is the best put forward so far - but it is bad PR mainly because of the disagreement and misunderstood counter-arguments put forward from within the community that should be able to see the logic of it.

Red-legged Partridges enhance the environment!! Not in my view. I'd be quite happy to see them eradicated as well, especially all the loathsome hybrids, and as for the 'park maggot' aka Canada Goose - eurgh!!

However, I realise that there are far too many alien species already at large and it is impractical to get rid of them all. Efforts need to be concentrated in removing aliens which have a clear and proven detrimental effect - and it has to be done while it is still feasible, not wait until there are as many Ruddy Ducks as there are Canada Geese.

Depressing indeed - and this is before I even contemplate the bad science and sentiment in the Magpie/Sparrowhawk arguments.

clenash · Sep 16, 2004

can someone tell me if the uk ruddy duck population are all from feral stock why they go to spain? also if only a percentage of them go to spain why cull them all? i read somewhere the idea of only shooting the ruddys that make it to spain, giving us the chance to see them here and keeping the wh duck pure. sounds good to me but i'm sure its not that simple, or is it?

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