Mirrorless cameras - contrast AF? (1 Viewer)

I heard that all mirrorless cameras (at the moment at least) use contrast AF. Does this mean that they will be inferior to DSLRs when it comes to fast moving objects (at least until something change regarding mirror less technology).

If this is the case, it´s quite easy to chose between mirrorless or DSLR for me for my next camera. The small size is nice, but lack of long range lenses and slower AF is deal breaker then.

kristoffer said:

I heard that all mirrorless cameras (at the moment at least) use contrast AF. Does this mean that they will be inferior to DSLRs when it comes to fast moving objects (at least until something change regarding mirror less technology).

If this is the case, it´s quite easy to chose between mirrorless or DSLR for me for my next camera. The small size is nice, but lack of long range lenses and slower AF is deal breaker then.

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Yes, there is a price you pay for these neat compact formats. If your priority is fast autofocus, go for a DSLR! The long range is basically available in the compacts. But the small diameter of the objective (which is required to keep the cameras compact) does have its drawbacks. So it's either lugging around a lot of weight, and spending a lot of money, or else you have to live with some limitations. In my case, the weight problems with heavy optics in carry-on luggage have "facilitated" the switch to the mirrorless cameras. I still carry a telescope in the carry-on, so something had to give. But every now and then I consider a DSLR at least for those occasions without air travel.

Ok, thanks for the information!

So, im curious. What camera and lens do you use now, after you moved to mirrorless? Small size is interesting and since I have not tried any ML I am not sure how slow "slow" AF is.

Swissboy said:

Yes, there is a price you pay for these neat compact formats. If your priority is fast autofocus, go for a DSLR! The long range is basically available in the compacts. But the small diameter of the objective (which is required to keep the cameras compact) does have its drawbacks. So it's either lugging around a lot of weight, and spending a lot of money, or else you have to live with some limitations. In my case, the weight problems with heavy optics in carry-on luggage have "facilitated" the switch to the mirrorless cameras. I still carry a telescope in the carry-on, so something had to give. But every now and then I consider a DSLR at least for those occasions without air travel.

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kristoffer said:

I heard that all mirrorless cameras (at the moment at least) use contrast AF. Does this mean that they will be inferior to DSLRs when it comes to fast moving objects (at least until something change regarding mirror less technology).

If this is the case, it´s quite easy to chose between mirrorless or DSLR for me for my next camera. The small size is nice, but lack of long range lenses and slower AF is deal breaker then.

Click to expand...

Kristoffer, can I ask why you ask this question? I presume it's because you are still considering which camera system to buy into for birding (correct me if I'm wrong?).

From my personal perspective the whole issue around smaller/mirror-less camera bodies (for birding) is a bit of a non-starter from my personal experience. It might be possible to save around 500g from a camera body by not using a mirror/prism in the design (compare something like the Panasonic G1 with a Canon 40D for example), but when you put this weight saving in perspective by factoring in all the other bits & pieces that bird photographers generally carry (lenses, spare batteries, bags, tripods, etc, and of course other birding gear like bins & scope) even when travelling light, that extra weight makes very little difference overall.

No matter which system you use the biggest single difference to weight will be the lenses; you simply cannot get away from the fact that larger aperture lenses are bigger and heavier (but because of this increased size, image quality will usually be better, especially in difficult conditions such as low light, fast moving subject etc).

Coming back to the G1 & 40D example used above. You could theoretically, and by using the relevant adapters, fit something like an Olympus 300mm f2.8 to the G1, and it would weigh very similar to the 40D and Canon 300mm f2.8. Actually the Canon system would be a bit lighter because the lens on its own is lighter than the equivalent Olympus lens. It would no-doubt also handle much better in use.

I think what this comes down to is if you want a camera system that will get you good results under typical birding conditions, go with what's tried and tested, and in most cases that means Canon or Nikon, usually because they have the lenses best suited to this type of work.

There are good reasons why you don't see many excellent bird images from Olympus & Panasonic m4/3 bodies with their smaller lenses (of course excluding the excellent G1 digiscoped images that we see here on BF). I eagerly await their forthcoming 100-300 zoom (Panasonic), but would be very surprised if it can match some of the bigger 'birding lenses' for image quality.

Now if you weren't talking about a system for birding then I can see a real advantage to mirror-less cameras. DSLRs are afterall a throw-back to old film technology, and we no longer need camera bodies with mirrors & prisms, but I think we will have a while to wait yet before we completely move away from this type of design. Canon & Nikon at the moment don't even seem interested in competing on this playing field, though no-doubt they will be keeping a very close eye on developments of this kind.

Steve

Hi Steve, thanks for the reply. You are right, it is for birding. A few months ago I decided to buy a 40d but the deal never went through because of the seller, and I did not buy another one because I started to get confused with all the options out there.

The mirrorless systems get so much attention and especially the NEX at the moment got plenty of people liking it. But like you explain, I guess they come to their best outside the realm of bird photography. I can with no doubt wait for a 60d or get a discounted 50d then, and decide not to worry about the mirrorless for the moment.

And yeah, I digiscope and I really like it when the birds sit still, but I pretty much need to have a new camera to replace my superzoom, the limitations of the FZ18 start to annoy me a lot.

kristoffer said:

Ok, thanks for the information!

So, im curious. What camera and lens do you use now, after you moved to mirrorless? Small size is interesting and since I have not tried any ML I am not sure how slow "slow" AF is.

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From another post of yours, I read you have a FZ18 at present. I have a FZ8 and a FZ35/38. The former, I love for its compact size, quite a bit smaller than the FZ35, for general use. The FZ35 replaced a FZ28 which I felt lost moving objects too often. But overall, I experience the same limitations that annoy you with your FZ18. At least, you still have the more comfortable EFV in the FZ18, compared to the later versions. So as I said previously, it's a matter of priorities.

The FZ models are not ideal for digiscoping, I think. And for flying birds, you'd better get a DSLR to avoid too many misses. I sometimes switch to movie mode to get something decent. From the HD videos, single takes can then be extracted. With quality limitations, of course, but not as bad as from the FZ8 videos. The same holds, by the way, also for other fast moving birds like a walking pigeon. I never managed to get them with the position I wanted until I started taking videos. With a DSLR you just shoot a series and are sure to have something decent in much higher resolution.

Yeah I have the FZ18. I think it is an excellent tool to take identification shots with, and the size never makes me leave it at home, actually it is always with me and that fact has allowed me to take some shots I would not have done with a DSLR because it would have been left home due to shear size.

For my digiscoping I also use a Panasonic, the FX150, and it works great with my scope and adapter. But I often use my car when Im out birding so the size of the camera isnt a huge problem, and fast moving birds are too hard for me to digiscope. At this times the IQ of the FZ18 really limits me. So a DSLR it will be.

According to a rumour on a swedish photographic forum the Canon 60d is to be released today but nothing yet..

Swissboy said:

From another post of yours, I read you have a FZ18 at present. I have a FZ8 and a FZ35/38. The former, I love for its compact size, quite a bit smaller than the FZ35, for general use. The FZ35 replaced a FZ28 which I felt lost moving objects too often. But overall, I experience the same limitations that annoy you with your FZ18. At least, you still have the more comfortable EFV in the FZ18, compared to the later versions. So as I said previously, it's a matter of priorities.

The FZ models are not ideal for digiscoping, I think. And for flying birds, you'd better get a DSLR to avoid too many misses. I sometimes switch to movie mode to get something decent. From the HD videos, single takes can then be extracted. With quality limitations, of course, but not as bad as from the FZ8 videos. The same holds, by the way, also for other fast moving birds like a walking pigeon. I never managed to get them with the position I wanted until I started taking videos. With a DSLR you just shoot a series and are sure to have something decent in much higher resolution.

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