• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Leica's Noctivid and 3D (1 Viewer)

People these days are used to the flat compressed space in the images of flat field bins. The Noctivid probably attracts new users which have not been interested in Leica bins before. Hence the discussion. Which is good, because IMO flat field is a big mistake and we need a choice of premium bins which are not flat field.

I compared Nikon EDG 7x42 vs Ultravid Plus 7x42 the last days. EDG has a really awful flat rendering of space. Ultravid looks wonderfully 3D. Stereo base is identical.

Curved field is the basis. Leica glow makes the rest. Control of aberrations could be important, too, anyway 7x42 Ultravid looks much more 3D than 8x42 Ultravid.
Not sure I agree. Before falling in love with the 8x Noctivid 3D, I owned both old and new Trinovids, and two three different Ultravids. None comes close to the Noctivid 3D view. Others here have similar experience. So I doubt the hypotheses that we are used to flat fields, or at least, you can't say it's 'just the Leica view'.
 
Not the best target to check 3D.

Better to look along the streets with different targets at different distances.

I had time ago the night owls 10x56 and is a very nice binocular but not anymore competitive with the last offers, after buy the SV 10X42 i sold the Zeiss after couple of days checking them on field.

But if your are happy with them and serve you well keep it ;)

I'm not sure what world you live in or your acuity rating but everything I have the good fortune to view on this wonderful planet is three dimensional and I don't need a set of Leica bins to convince me of such! I do of course own Zeiss Night Owles so perhaps I've led an overly sheltered life!

What I was testing in the above wee experiment should be seen as the ability of each instrument to resolve an image. The fact the circumstances dictated an introduction of what is best described as graded filtration (glass/window panes) can only lend a certain credabilty to my undertaking and findings.

The messgae is therfore very clear: Forget this marketing carp and save yourself circa $1000 in the process by trawling e-bay for a pair of Zeiss 7x45 Little Owles.

LGM
 
Last edited:
I'm not sure what world you live in or your acuity rating but everything I have the good fortune to view on this wonderful planet is three dimensional and I don't need a set of Leica bins to convince me of such! I do of course own Zeiss Night Owles so perhaps I've led an overly sheltered life!

What I was testing in the above wee experiment should be seen as the ability of each instrument to resolve an image. The fact the circumstances dictated an introduction of what is best described as graded filtration (glass/window panes) can only lend a certain credabilty to my undertaking and findings.

The messgae is therfore very clear: Forget this marketing carp and save yourself circa $1000 in the process by trawling e-bay for a pair of Zeiss 7x45 Little Owles.

LGM

In the world I live in I think this is a Leica post and a quick look or experiment is completely irrelevant like drive a Bentley GT 10 meters in the city and try to talk about it.

Some comments and reviews of Night owls from very good reviews of bird forum.

1

I have the 10x56 Night Owls - bought them to compliment my collection rather than as a daily use bin.

I am very sensitive to CA, and the Night Owls have tons of it, some even in the sweetspot. It is downright distracting on a flying bird, with a bright orange leading edge and bright purple trailing edge.

Sharpness and contrast is OK, but even my P coated 7x42 and 8x30 classics are noticeably sharper and more contrasty. Sweetspot is small and edge degradation quite obvious. Don't believe the hype, as some will try to tell you these bins are still the equal of the FL / HT - they lag behind clearly in many catagories. Certainly, the N.O.'s lack the transparency of newer models.

2

I am pretty sensitive to CA as well and it definitely is there with these but for some reason it dis not bother me as much. Maybe its just me but the Zeiss binoculars I have looked through seem a bit less saturated and contrasty to me than the Leicas. Its not objectionable and i think could be considered more neutral than flat. Somewhat like the old ektachrome vs kodachrome for the pre-digi crowd.
I think they are nice to have as a collection piece and i actually like the weight but am wondering why they are priced so high. I think i was expecting something a bit more exciting. Maybe that will be with the 7x45s which hopefully will arrive today!

3
I have tried a couple of pairs 8X56 and they were optically the same as the 10x56. Considering the exit pupil and the 56 mm objectives, I was expecting a glorious, luminous image but, in reality, it is pretty dull and flat. Anyone using the Design selection to champion leaded glass is barking up the wrong tree, IMO.

As i say before if you like it keep it, in the world that i live we call that Self-belief.
 
Not sure I agree. Before falling in love with the 8x Noctivid 3D, I owned both old and new Trinovids, and two three different Ultravids. None comes close to the Noctivid 3D view. Others here have similar experience. So I doubt the hypotheses that we are used to flat fields, or at least, you can't say it's 'just the Leica view'.

And the color us much improved also in the NV respect of the Ultravids HD and HD plus.

Is the most realistic and accurate among the very best binoculars.

I still amazed how good the colours are when i compare ny NV and SV 10X42.
 
Any chance of an 8X56 Noctivid?

LGM

I would expect a 50mm series, that is a Leica size they have done with
the flagship. The 32 will come first, then the big objective models.

Size matters with Leica, bigger and heavier is not always better.

Just my opinion of course, but 50 mm is large enough in many circles. ;)

Jerry
 
If in a sport (e.g. some Olympic swimming races, 100 meter sprint) the difference between first and second and third persons are so small that a human observer can't really tell who won, than that's not a meaningful race. If the difference between knife brand A and B sharpness is not easily noticed by ordinary people cutting a cucumber, then the two knives are practically the same (It would be pointless if a cooking magazine tests the knives sharpness via an electron microscope) In the same way, if the difference between the quality of binoculars A and B are so minute that most "ordinary users" do not notice a difference during "ordinary field use", then we are just having fun here ;)
 
Last edited:
If in a sport (e.g. some Olympic swimming races, 100 meter sprint) the difference between first and second and third persons are so small that a human observer can't really tell who won, than that's not a meaningful race. If the difference between knife brand A and B sharpness is not easily noticed by ordinary people cutting a cucumber, then the two knives are practically the same (It would be pointless if a cooking magazine tests the knives sharpness via an electron microscope) In the same way, if the difference between the quality of binoculars A and B are so minute that most "ordinary users" do not notice a difference during "ordinary field use", then we are just having fun here ;)
Let's hope so but not forgetting this is a LEICA forum so no mention of Zeiss, knives or cucumbers please!

LGM
 
From 'Outdoor Life', 'Best Binoculars 2017', on the Noctivid 10x42 (note, 10x):

...one tester noted, "The image is more three-dimensional than I'm used to seeing through a binocular."
 
Globetrotter, post 184,
I have investigated the Noctivids in comparison with Swarovsi SLC, EL-SV and the Zeiss SF and HT (and I also compared them with the Utravid HD-plus). The color representation of the Noctivids shows no difference with that of the Ultravid HD-plusses and that is not so surprising since there absorption/transmission spectra are practically identical in shape. Strictly speaking the color representation of the Noctivids is not perfectly neutral, but has a very slight tendency to red. That was obviously a deliberate choice by Leica, since the overall color reproduction gives the images a more saturated color impression and that is perfectly alright, I like it.
Because of this choice however, the SLC's for example have a brighter image impression than the Noctivids, although the overall light transmission is not so much different, but the color balance is slightly different.
Special 3-D enhancement of the Noctivids as compared to the other tested binoculars were not present in my hands.
The overall handling comfort of the Noctivids I found not so good as it is for the other competitors for a number of reasons, that may also be the cause, in combination with the very high price of the Noctivids, that sales in The Netherlands at least are not very high: some shops report no sales at all others report some by real Leica fans, but that is it.
Gijs van Ginkel
 
Globetrotter, post 184,
The overall handling comfort of the Noctivids I found not so good as it is for the other competitors for a number of reasons, that may also be the cause, in combination with the very high price of the Noctivids, that sales in The Netherlands at least are not very high: some shops report no sales at all others report some by real Leica fans, but that is it.
Gijs van Ginkel

Perhaps people are buying them from elsewhere where the prices are more reasonable. I certainly did just that. Prices in Finland are very high as well, whereas UK and German prices are much lower.
 
Gjis, post 190. I see a slight yellow touch in the Ultravid +++, not red as used to be in Leica bins. Why would a red bias increase saturation? Seriously interested how saturation works - which is to my eyes highest in the Ultravids but great (maybe a bit larger than life).
 
About 3D and the Noctivid.

I have a 10x42 NV on loan presently, for a little bit of testing. To my eyes and brain, the image presented by these binoculars does indeed at times look quite palpably three dimensional, more so than what I am accustomed to seeing. The reason for this as far as I can tell is a combination of three things, all of which have been mentioned before. Firstly unprecedented contrast and freedom from just about any veiling glare or other types of unwanted reflections. Secondly the very high color saturation of the image and the absolutely superb contrast. And thirdly, relative lack of common optical aberrations and consequently very high image sharpness, both as comes to measurable resolution and to the appearance of the image to the eye.

The sample I'm checking, which was randomly picked, has both tubes equally good with booster measured resolution equalling the best I have seen in 10x42 binoculars and an image that looks exceedingly clean and sharp when magnified to 30x.

When these strengths come together and are aided by a little bit of traditional pincushion distortion and a nice moderate bit of field curvature, your eyes see a natural and pleasing image with very little "hash" to mess things up, and your brain happily produces a three-dimensional perceptual experience out of this.

I read Gijs's report on the handling comfort, and mostly agree on the specific points concerning the placement of the strap lugs and the focus wheel and such, but for me and my way of holding a binocular the Noctivid works just fine. For my facial anatomy, the eyecups also work unusually well, providing both good comfort and good shielding.

Kimmo
 
Tobias, post 192,
I did not see a slightly yellow preference in thee UV+ and on the basis of the transmission spectra I did not expect one. As I wrote the spectra of the UV+ and the Noctivids are almost identical within experimental error.
Gijs van Ginkel

(I hope that the spectra are going with this post)
 

Attachments

  • BF Transmissie spectra 8x42 Leica Noctivid, Leica Ultravid HD plus, Swarovski SLC-WB en Zeiss SF dd
    14.4 KB · Views: 193
Gjis, post 190. I see a slight yellow touch in the Ultravid +++, not red as used to be in Leica bins. Why would a red bias increase saturation? Seriously interested how saturation works - which is to my eyes highest in the Ultravids but great (maybe a bit larger than life).

Waiting for your review Tobias ;)
 
About 3D and the Noctivid.

I have a 10x42 NV on loan presently, for a little bit of testing. To my eyes and brain, the image presented by these binoculars does indeed at times look quite palpably three dimensional, more so than what I am accustomed to seeing. The reason for this as far as I can tell is a combination of three things, all of which have been mentioned before. Firstly unprecedented contrast and freedom from just about any veiling glare or other types of unwanted reflections. Secondly the very high color saturation of the image and the absolutely superb contrast. And thirdly, relative lack of common optical aberrations and consequently very high image sharpness, both as comes to measurable resolution and to the appearance of the image to the eye.

The sample I'm checking, which was randomly picked, has both tubes equally good with booster measured resolution equalling the best I have seen in 10x42 binoculars and an image that looks exceedingly clean and sharp when magnified to 30x.

When these strengths come together and are aided by a little bit of traditional pincushion distortion and a nice moderate bit of field curvature, your eyes see a natural and pleasing image with very little "hash" to mess things up, and your brain happily produces a three-dimensional perceptual experience out of this.

I read Gijs's report on the handling comfort, and mostly agree on the specific points concerning the placement of the strap lugs and the focus wheel and such, but for me and my way of holding a binocular the Noctivid works just fine. For my facial anatomy, the eyecups also work unusually well, providing both good comfort and good shielding.

Kimmo

Agree with you Kimmo i share the same impressions.

Of course it doesn't have the 3D of my Zeiss 7X50 BGAT but is above of other alpha roofs.

The huge contrast and clean view free of veil glare probably helps here to increase the perceived 3D.
 
Globetrotter, post 184,
I have investigated the Noctivids in comparison with Swarovsi SLC, EL-SV and the Zeiss SF and HT (and I also compared them with the Utravid HD-plus). The color representation of the Noctivids shows no difference with that of the Ultravid HD-plusses and that is not so surprising since there absorption/transmission spectra are practically identical in shape. Strictly speaking the color representation of the Noctivids is not perfectly neutral, but has a very slight tendency to red. That was obviously a deliberate choice by Leica, since the overall color reproduction gives the images a more saturated color impression and that is perfectly alright, I like it.
Because of this choice however, the SLC's for example have a brighter image impression than the Noctivids, although the overall light transmission is not so much different, but the color balance is slightly different.
Special 3-D enhancement of the Noctivids as compared to the other tested binoculars were not present in my hands.
The overall handling comfort of the Noctivids I found not so good as it is for the other competitors for a number of reasons, that may also be the cause, in combination with the very high price of the Noctivids, that sales in The Netherlands at least are not very high: some shops report no sales at all others report some by real Leica fans, but that is it.
Gijs van Ginkel

Hi Gijs.

For me the NV has a vey different color than the HD and i did some observation on targets with very muted colors and the NV shows it with an absolute precision.

It is a delight to observe the details and the colors of the birds and fauna with these binoculars.

I have been looking with my NV 10X42 and SV 10X42 an old door worn by the sun a few meters away and then checking it with naked eye and the color coming from the NV is absolutely accurate.

Maybe there are some sample variation on different binoculars with their coatings ? i don't know how to explain our different view valid in both cases of course.

Have a nice Day.

Jesus.
 
Globetrotter, Jezus, post 197,
With respect to the Noctivid color representation: I also checked that with both eyes together and independently, but in all cases the image was slightly red. If I compared the primary colors like blue, yellow and red with the naked eye and with the Noctivid, the colors throgh the binoculars looked more intense and "darker" (try to catch it in words) than with the unarmed eye. Nothing wrong with it and even pleasant.
Mrs. Sigrun Kammans, who probably designed the optical construction by Leica for the Noctivids, did a very good job in my opinion.
It is a real pity in my opinion, that the handling comfort did not reach the same level of excellence. Have a nice evening too (spent my day with fmily and not with binoculars).
Gijs van Ginkel.
 
Warning! This thread is more than 7 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top