Hi ,I'm pondering on the idea of a scope and wondering if it's more useful or hindrance ,I wander bird watching and hide watch ,Must admit I'm leaning towards buying one and giving serious thought to the Hawke nature trek 20-60,80 ,On my travels I seem to be noticing a lot more bins than scopes even in hides ,Thanks
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To scope or not to scope (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Tyke121
- Start date
Hi,
first of all, welcome to birdforum!
If you need a scope for getting an ID really depends on the situation - I'd say most cases you're going to be fine with bins - if it's too far, just get closer. Of course sometimes this isn't an option - then a scope helps...
On the other hand, just having a closer look at a bird through a scope is really enjoyable plus if you're birding in a group it's really nice to get some bird in the scope and everybody can have a look - a lot easier than describing where you've seen it and maybe half the group finds it. And then there's digiscoping or phonescoping...
If you want a scope, especially a large one, also depends on the distances you walk and the other stuff you carry. A large scope with reasonably stable tripod and head is 4-5 kg. If you have a scopac that's ok to carry on your back and there's space for a guide, an extra EP, some water and a snack - but not for extra clothing or big water bottles.
Regarding what scope to get I tend to recommend used alphas - Nikon Fieldscopes, Pentax or old ED/Fluorite Kowas are very nice glass and often available for very reasonable prices. Zeiss, Leica and Swaro are also good but usually quite steep even used.
Opticron also has some nice glass - the ED models are quite high regarded
A non ED scope with a 20-60 zoom is probably not such a great idea - even if it's a good example without major aberrations physics makes the image get soft above 40x or so due to longitudinal CA and unfortunately zoom EPs (except some very $$$ wide angle zooms) tend to have a very narrow field of view at lower magnifications. I would recommend a low to moderate fixed magnification wide angle EP for non-ED/fluorite glass - the 30 wide is usually very nice.
Joachim
first of all, welcome to birdforum!
If you need a scope for getting an ID really depends on the situation - I'd say most cases you're going to be fine with bins - if it's too far, just get closer. Of course sometimes this isn't an option - then a scope helps...
On the other hand, just having a closer look at a bird through a scope is really enjoyable plus if you're birding in a group it's really nice to get some bird in the scope and everybody can have a look - a lot easier than describing where you've seen it and maybe half the group finds it. And then there's digiscoping or phonescoping...
If you want a scope, especially a large one, also depends on the distances you walk and the other stuff you carry. A large scope with reasonably stable tripod and head is 4-5 kg. If you have a scopac that's ok to carry on your back and there's space for a guide, an extra EP, some water and a snack - but not for extra clothing or big water bottles.
Regarding what scope to get I tend to recommend used alphas - Nikon Fieldscopes, Pentax or old ED/Fluorite Kowas are very nice glass and often available for very reasonable prices. Zeiss, Leica and Swaro are also good but usually quite steep even used.
Opticron also has some nice glass - the ED models are quite high regarded
A non ED scope with a 20-60 zoom is probably not such a great idea - even if it's a good example without major aberrations physics makes the image get soft above 40x or so due to longitudinal CA and unfortunately zoom EPs (except some very $$$ wide angle zooms) tend to have a very narrow field of view at lower magnifications. I would recommend a low to moderate fixed magnification wide angle EP for non-ED/fluorite glass - the 30 wide is usually very nice.
Joachim
Scopes are a real bother to bird with.
The instrument is pretty useless without a stable support, so a tripod is essential. That transforms the birding experience.
Binoculars allow immediate observation, whereas scopes require setup and then stowing every time. The ease of observation is lost. So unless there is good reason to carry a scope, they are best avoided.
mayoayo
Well-known member
LOL....I mean..this statement, in the birding context, is true about almost anything..EXCEPT A SCOPE!..for instance.."Coffeemakers are a real pain to bird with..unless there is a good reason to carry a coffemaker, they are best avoided"..And the list is endless...
But for a scope is not really true...
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Hi,
well, it's an opinion that etudiant is entitled to - most birders I meet outside seem to think so too since they don't carry a scope. On the other hand a big majority of those liked a close-up view through the scope when I had set it up.
And yes, there is a certain amount of hassle involved with carrying a scope and setting it up.
Less so with a scopac in my opinion since it then carries quite easily like a light backpack with the legs extended, so I just have to get it off and set it down and aim it with the cable tie sight on the bird I saw before in my bins.
Did birds get away while doing this - sure thing, but I believe the close up view is worth it in many cases.
Sure, if I know I will be in dense thicket all the time, the scope stays at home or in the trunk...
Joachim
well, it's an opinion that etudiant is entitled to - most birders I meet outside seem to think so too since they don't carry a scope. On the other hand a big majority of those liked a close-up view through the scope when I had set it up.
And yes, there is a certain amount of hassle involved with carrying a scope and setting it up.
Less so with a scopac in my opinion since it then carries quite easily like a light backpack with the legs extended, so I just have to get it off and set it down and aim it with the cable tie sight on the bird I saw before in my bins.
Did birds get away while doing this - sure thing, but I believe the close up view is worth it in many cases.
Sure, if I know I will be in dense thicket all the time, the scope stays at home or in the trunk...
Joachim
Thanks for all the great advice and comments ,I must admit I'm leaning towards buying one as I believe the saying ,If you ain't got it your never gonna use it lol ,Once bought I guess they don't cost you anything ,Now which to get ? So many to buy and reading the adverts every companies is the best .
Rather obviously, it'll depend on the kind of birding you do. If you like walking huge distances, or confine yourself to woodland, parks etc. a scope might be overkill, or too much to carry. However, i couldn't imagine being without one. I'm on shorelines, estuaries and marshes and a scope is essential for me.
With magnesium/composite bodies, ED glass etc. you don't have to burden yourself too much. There are very convenient ways of carrying them (i use a scopac to walk there and back, but not while birding). A good 60-65mm ED glass scope can be very lightweight and convenient. Once you've had one, you won't go back, i reckon!
As a side issue, there seems to be a swing in the UK to folks walking round with mini or compact bins and the HUGE camera/lens. However, the availability of various forms of phone adaptors for scopes makes digiscoping a relatively cheap option for the scope owner. So, buy the best glass you can afford, and keep your future options open!
With magnesium/composite bodies, ED glass etc. you don't have to burden yourself too much. There are very convenient ways of carrying them (i use a scopac to walk there and back, but not while birding). A good 60-65mm ED glass scope can be very lightweight and convenient. Once you've had one, you won't go back, i reckon!
As a side issue, there seems to be a swing in the UK to folks walking round with mini or compact bins and the HUGE camera/lens. However, the availability of various forms of phone adaptors for scopes makes digiscoping a relatively cheap option for the scope owner. So, buy the best glass you can afford, and keep your future options open!
For 'everyday' birding in reasonably good conditions, over short to medium distances (say up to a kilometre or so, depending on the light), the Nikon ED50 with 27x MC wide eyepiece will do pretty much everything a 'big' scope can. Coupled with a light tripod (I used Slik Videosprint, I think Velbon make an ultralight one too), it is extremely light and portable, and fits in any little shoulder-bag with tripod hung off the strap.
If you want to bird at estuaries or over long distances in challenging light, e.g. Seawatching, an excellent top-tier scope is the Meopta S2HD 82mm with 30-60x zoom eyepiece. This is my current 'big' scope, and although I hardly use it anymore, it is my choice when seawatching. It really is as good as the reviews, and much cheaper than similar models. The only criticism some folks have made of it is the 'rolling ball' effect when panning at lower magnifications. This doesn't bother me in the slightest, although I notice it if I look for it. I got my Meopta from a German company.
Keep an eye on the classifieds here...excellent scopes come up regularly.
(Get an angled scope. Don't get a straight one. Just don't!
)
If you want to bird at estuaries or over long distances in challenging light, e.g. Seawatching, an excellent top-tier scope is the Meopta S2HD 82mm with 30-60x zoom eyepiece. This is my current 'big' scope, and although I hardly use it anymore, it is my choice when seawatching. It really is as good as the reviews, and much cheaper than similar models. The only criticism some folks have made of it is the 'rolling ball' effect when panning at lower magnifications. This doesn't bother me in the slightest, although I notice it if I look for it. I got my Meopta from a German company.
Keep an eye on the classifieds here...excellent scopes come up regularly.
(Get an angled scope. Don't get a straight one. Just don't!
)
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mooreorless
Well-known member
I would agree with Sancho, the little Nikon 50ED is a great spotter, an overachiever. I do have the Nikon 82ED as well now and love it as well!
Hi Tyke,
It really depends on how much weight and bulk you're ready to carry around with you while hiking. These factors alone might explain why there are more binocular users than scope users.
If you're not certain of the advantages of a scope in your particular use case, and for hiking in general, I'd consider a compact scope like the Nikon ED50A. Not only is the scope very light, it also will work well with a light tripod, so the weight saving is greater than one might expect.
The tripod can be a bit smaller and thus lighter for an angled tripod, but if your favourite hides are built with the windows at binocular-friendly heights only, it might be difficult to use an angled scope, especially in the case of the Nikon ED50A which can't be rotated around the longitudinal axis.
The straight Nikon ED50 can also be carried in a stay-on case and used as a hand-held monocular. The downside is that the stay-on case has to go off if you want to use the scope on a tripod (or monopod), which isn't compatible with "ease of handling" in my opinion. You can't even keep the quick release plate on as the stay-on case uses the tripod threads of the scope body.
Regards,
Henning
It really depends on how much weight and bulk you're ready to carry around with you while hiking. These factors alone might explain why there are more binocular users than scope users.
If you're not certain of the advantages of a scope in your particular use case, and for hiking in general, I'd consider a compact scope like the Nikon ED50A. Not only is the scope very light, it also will work well with a light tripod, so the weight saving is greater than one might expect.
The tripod can be a bit smaller and thus lighter for an angled tripod, but if your favourite hides are built with the windows at binocular-friendly heights only, it might be difficult to use an angled scope, especially in the case of the Nikon ED50A which can't be rotated around the longitudinal axis.
The straight Nikon ED50 can also be carried in a stay-on case and used as a hand-held monocular. The downside is that the stay-on case has to go off if you want to use the scope on a tripod (or monopod), which isn't compatible with "ease of handling" in my opinion. You can't even keep the quick release plate on as the stay-on case uses the tripod threads of the scope body.
Regards,
Henning
