Please steer me in the right direction (1 Viewer)

I started reading a bunch of threads here and in the tripod section but am having a little trouble defining a list of items to choose from/evaluate, so I am hoping you guys can start me off in the right direction to make a decision.

I am starting to plan for a scope purchase sometime in the next 6 months. I have held off so far because I already have Canon 18x50 IS binoculars which have served me well for medium range views. I have often carried both my normal binoculars (a small group but most used is a Zeiss Conquest HD 8x42) and used the 18x for long views at lakes and such.

I also have a 5 inch Maksutov-Cassegrain telescope with a 45 deg. diagonal and various TeleVue eyepieces which works well, but I am realizing that I almost never use it due to size and annoyance of setup.

So my thought is to get a scope for ocean viewing and longer looks. I am thinking larger since I have the binos for shorter views, so probably at lest 80mm I guess...

I went to Cabelas today and looked at a few Vortex and they seemed pretty good but the guy behind the desk was not very knowledgeable and I am not sure what tripod or head to pair it with or if I should look beyond just Vortex and if I should settle on straight or bent. I like the idea of a zoom and I hope by going with a larger scope I can have a usable 60x. I seem to like the straight scopes better but I do have kids that might want views at some point so I am thinking bent would be better? But then is it harder to get the bird in view with bent?

So I am sure you guys get lots of these requests but I didn't see one matching my criteria recently and I would really appreciate any specific assistance on brands and models to look at. My price range is not very specific but I want to get to that point of diminishing returns in the same way the Conquest binos I have are. Something rugged and good optics but not top dollar for that last 5% of performance. Thanks!

Hi Pete.
I have had the Canon 18x50 for 15 years.
Also a 5 inch Maksutov.

And the 90mm Skywatcher Maksutov, which needs very good light for higher powers. My best views at 135 yards are at 125x, but from indoors through selected window glass.

I am mainly an astronomer or aircraft or long distance user.

Straight scopes need higher, heavier tripods.

With birds static, I don't think there is a problem finding them with an angled say 20 to 60 scope.

Being used to higher magnifications, you probably need an 80mm or larger.

Depending on your Seeing conditions you may be able to use higher powers than 60x outdoors.

Hi,

unfortunately there is no good enough Conquest with spotting scopes. Even top names show sample variation with the occasional lemon present - but there you can expect a speedy rectification by the supplier.

I would either try to get a used alpha in person, on ebay with buyer protection or maybe from the classifieds here... or a go to a brick and mortar store, try some scopes and if you like one, get exactly that example.

Joachim

Thanks, sounds like pretty good advice. Let me ask this - is there much difficulty in viewing flying birds at the coast with a bent scope? It would be nice to have the bent scope for sharing with others but I don't want to give up too much.

Hi,

I find aiming with an angled scope fairly easy with Kimmo's cable tie sight...

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=99084

Joachim

Thanks Joachim, that is most helpful!

jring said:

Hi,

I find aiming with an angled scope fairly easy with Kimmo's cable tie sight...

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=99084

Joachim

Click to expand...

+1 on the cable tie sight.

I've been considering used a lot, maybe a Nikon Fieldscope ED82 - they seem very reasonably priced on ebay and seem to be well regarded. On the new side I'm looking at a Razor HD which would be a lot more money. Tough choices.

PeteQuad said:

I've been considering used a lot, maybe a Nikon Fieldscope ED82 - they seem very reasonably priced on ebay and seem to be well regarded. On the new side I'm looking at a Razor HD which would be a lot more money. Tough choices.

Click to expand...

If in decent shape the Nikon is tremendous value, still very competitive with the best optically and robust mechanically. You'll be very happy with it.
Do note the tripod is the harder choice, because a solid support is essential to let your scope perform, but the associated weight and bulk hurts portability.
Here too a used item is well worth considering.

Hi,

a used Nikon Fieldscope will be a very good option and give great views. Maybe go to some Cabela store to try if you like a scope with that style of focuser.

EPs for fieldscopes are getting a bit rare, so make sure you get a usable one with your body - the 38x wide is a great option, the zooms are good too optically, but not very wide at the low mag end (which is common).

And now out for some birding...

Joachim

Hi,

a used Nikon Fieldscope ED will be a very good option and give great views. Maybe go to some Cabelas store to try if you like a scope with that style of focuser.

EPs for fieldscopes are getting a bit rare, so make sure you get a usable one with your body - the 30 or 38x wide are a great option, the zooms are good too optically, but not very wide at the low mag end (which is common).

PS: there is an ED 82 with 38x wide in the classifieds - UK based though, you'd have to ask if the seller would consider selling to the US.

And now out for some birding...

Joachim

PeteQuad said:

I've been considering used a lot, maybe a Nikon Fieldscope ED82 - they seem very reasonably priced on ebay and seem to be well regarded. On the new side I'm looking at a Razor HD which would be a lot more money. Tough choices.

Click to expand...

I've used an ED82 angled for many years. I now primarily use a Kowa 883 with the 25-60 zoom. The Kowa is definitely my favorite!

The ED82 has a few problems. First, the helical focus is so sensitive it's often a real pain to obtain all the sharpness the scope is capable of. Yes, I can do it but it's not effortless and it wastes time.

The next challenge is the zoom. It has short eye relief, a narrow field of view and a tight focus ring. The 30XDS is the best lens for the scope (IMHO). I bought the 50XDS and the 30XDS and then happily used the 30XDS exclusively for almost ten years. The ED82A 30X DS combination is truly enjoyable and you don't miss much. The image in mine is so sharp that, even at great distances, I can discern a lot of detail. If I was forced to use this combo for the rest of my days I'd be content! The 50XDS and 75XDS are great lenses but not useful to me in the field. FWIW...I use the 75XDS to view the Trapezium in Orion's nebula. On a good night I get...good views.

I'm not aware of all the changes at Vortex but there are two versions of the Razor HD on EO:
https://www.eagleoptics.com/product...x85-angled-spotting-scope?variant=23707542535
https://www.eagleoptics.com/products/vortex-razor-hd-27-60x85-angled-spotting-scope

The one with the dual focus is the older model. Read the review on the helical focus model (new version) titled FOCUSING. The author's observations are exactly in tune with mine. I absolutely love the dual focus on my Kowa, especially after the years I spent with my ED82.

Good luck and don't cheat yourself...buy a good scope the first time around.

Hi,

back from birding - great day and great views. The other scope beside my vintage Kowa was a Swaro ATM (good example) which once again showed me why I'm not a fan of helifocs (at least not those on spotters - some astro models are ok, but there you just turn the EP... but others like them a lot.

My old Kowa has a one speed focuser too, but the gearing is well chosen and it can be turned with one finger vs. gripping the whole scope... plus these huge focus wheels make a stay on case rather redundant...

So it would be a great idea for the o.p. to try what focusing mechanism he prefers.

Joachim

I love the Swaro Helifocus...So it really just depends on your tastes.

But I will put in my thoughts on Vortex..... The price is nice, the looks are good....it works well....but will it last? What is in the 'inside' of the scope that will not last? Yes, a life time warranty I suppose so they have a plus there....

Hi,

before buying the new Vortex with the helifoc, the o.p. should have a look at henry links reviews of its Kamakura brethren (Brunton Icon & Zeiss Gavia)...

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=297258

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=341423

Joachim

I had read the Zeiss Gavia review, but comparing the Vortex to that scope actually helped its case in my eyes, since it is almost $500 cheaper. I actually can't find the Brunton for sale anymore, but it looks like it was a pretty good bargain.

Hi,

the point is that both scopes tested are quite a bit away from what is expected of an alpha scope - the question is what the Vortex from the same factory will be like - could be great or like the other two.

I would go with a used alpha or upper class, that is Nikon Fieldscope ED, Kowa models ending in 3 or 4, Zeiss Diascope, Leica APO, anything Swaro except an AT80 without HD and maybe Pentax ED models.

Best bets are Kowa and Nikon (if you like the focuser) as I haven't heard about bad optics from them and they tend to be sold at quite reasonable prices.

Joachim

That makes sense, thanks for the advice. I will keep my eye out.