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Poor Leica experience (1 Viewer)

johnhub

Relatively newbie birder
I’ve a pair of 8x32 Ultravid HDs in a rather fetching green colour. However, whilst optically excellent, there’s a problem with the focuser. There’s a bit of play in both directions, before the mechanism starts to work. This obviously isn’t a huge problem, but it’s enough to be noticeable, and the fault isn’t present in my black 8x32 Ultravid HD Plus.

I sent them to Portugal for repair, and they came back the same as before, with nothing apparently done to them (although they were beautifully packaged, with a new quality certificate). I expressed my disappointment and sent them again, this time naively thinking that Leica would sort out the problem.

I received them back last Saturday, and the fault is actually WORSE than before! The focusing knob now has really noticeable play in both directions. I’ve told Leica that I’ve no faith in their Portuguese facility, and I want them inspected and repaired at head office in Wetzlar. Email sent on Saturday, no reply so far.

I’d be interested to hear your thoughts/experiences.
 
Did you have a choice in where you sent them? I thought All Ultravid HD were made in Germany..? yes, I'd send them directly to headquarters if possible.
Your experience is unfortunate (so far).

Fingers crossed it all gets sorted.

(Ive found that some small slop in focus can be tolerated, so long as the focus remains fully synchronous)
 
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Did you have a choice in where you sent them? I thought All Ultravid HD were made in Germany..? yes, I'd send them directly to headquarters if possible.
Your experience is unfortunate (so far).

Fingers crossed it all gets sorted.

(Ive found that some small slop in focus can be tolerated, so long as the focus remains fully synchronous)

Thanks - they are all made in Germany, but Leica insist on them being repaired in Portugal. I'm going to give them a day or two to respond before I escalate it as a formal complaint. I've sent the email to contacts in Wetzlar, Portugal and the UK (David Slater, who I have a lot of time for).

I've looked at some other Leica samples at a recent RSPB event. A 10x42 Ultravid HD Plus was fine, but a 7x42 Ultravid HD Plus had that same play in the focuser. Surely this is easily remedied by just tightening something up?
 
This may not help as it represents a swap-out not a repair; but I did want to say this is a known problem.

My first pair of 8x42 HD Plus were like that, but don't sound like they had as much play yours. I immediately returned them to the Long Island retailer where I'd bought them, and they were swapped out for another pair.

My 7x42 HD Plus were excellent, my 10x50 HD Plus were perfect counter-clockwise, but would get a bit difficult coming back clock-wise. They went back. With a good pair, I never developed a latter problem. p.s. Noctivid seems to be very very consistent and I am not aware of any focus issues reported on this forum.
 

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I can only comment on my two existing pairs of Leica 8x20 BCA Trinovids, they are both exceptional! Indeed...it is their "fast free focusing movement" that attracted me in the first place, plus the sharpness of the image. I would take it up at the point of purchase and demand satisfaction.

Cheers
 
This may not help as it represents a swap-out not a repair; but I did want to say this is a known problem.

My first pair of 8x42 HD Plus were like that, but don't sound like they had as much play yours. I immediately returned them to the Long Island retailer where I'd bought them, and they were swapped out for another pair.

My 7x42 HD Plus were excellent, my 10x50 HD Plus were perfect counter-clockwise, but would get a bit difficult coming back clock-wise. They went back. With a good pair, I never developed a latter problem. p.s. Noctivid seems to be very very consistent and I am not aware of any focus issues reported on this forum.

Do you still have your 7x42 HD Plus? How are you finding them overall?

(I hadn't heard of a 7x42 HD Plus focus issue until it was mentioned in post #3 here)

Cheers,
Rathaus
 
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I had the exact same experience with my Ultravid 10x42 - the dreaded focus free play problem. Leica USA took a shot at it and it was only slightly better at first, but then the dreaded "null spot" returned to the same degree as prior to the repair. For such as design flaw to be in a top tier binocular was inexcusable and the failure to fix it properly was borderline arrogant. In addition during the course of the repair, the perfect diopter adjustment was made two points off. Despite the lure of keeping them with the no-fault passport warranty, I decided that the warranty was worthless if they couldn't fix that annoying problem. I'm happy with my Carl Zeiss Victory FL T* 8x42.
 
Thanks all for your comments/observations.

Update:

I sent an email Saturday 10 June, and followed up today with a reminder. I got a reply quite quickly, apologising for the delay in replying, and expressing concern about the problem.

I now have a UPS label for Wetzlar, and a promise to “get to the bottom of this” and get the service manager to “check the binocular and its repair”.

Fingers crossed – further updates to follow!
 
I had the exact same experience with my Ultravid 10x42 - the dreaded focus free play problem. Leica USA took a shot at it and it was only slightly better at first, but then the dreaded "null spot" returned to the same degree as prior to the repair. For such as design flaw to be in a top tier binocular was inexcusable and the failure to fix it properly was borderline arrogant. In addition during the course of the repair, the perfect diopter adjustment was made two points off. Despite the lure of keeping them with the no-fault passport warranty, I decided that the warranty was worthless if they couldn't fix that annoying problem. I'm happy with my Carl Zeiss Victory FL T* 8x42.

Hey St. Elmo, that's interesting. It would seem that it's harder to fix the problem than just simply tightening something up. I do like Leica bins, but this has shaken my faith somewhat. The horrid, notchy focusers on the BRs were supposedly sorted out with the HD line (my black 8x32 HD Plus is fine, but not so this green 8x32 HD), and this seems to be another 'known problem'.

Still, let's give them a chance and see what becomes of my Wetzlar repair.

Interestingly, I've got a Zeiss Victory FL T* 7x42 (bought second-hand, mint condition), which I can safely say is the best binocular I've ever looked through. Although bigger and heavier, the balance and feel are superb, not to mention the brightness and the massive field of view. These are now my 'default' birding binoculars. If only my smaller Leicas had that lovely Zeiss silky-smooth focuser...
 
But what timeframe should we allow for any 'weakness' in this particular key area of performance to show its self?

LGM

Whilst my evidence is only anecdotal, it seems with the UVHD+ line the issue exists or it doesn't. Like either there's drive-line slack at delivery or there won't be. You can't go back and adjust the gap between the gearing teeth without replacing the gearing, the play among the meshing teeth may be a constant unless they are replaced. Play in the focus wheel could be thought of very roughly as analogous to a train - when a train engine starts moving, until all of the slack is removed between each of the train's cars, the train isn't going to move as a whole; until all the gap is dialed out in the focus wheel when changing directions, the point of focus isn't going to move.

At any rate, also anecdotally, they seem to have solved this with the NVD's.

Do you still have your 7x42 HD Plus? How are you finding them overall? (I hadn't heard of a 7x42 HD Plus focus issue until it was mentioned in post #3 here). Cheers,
Rathaus

I am down to only my Noctivids and Zeiss, and I really regret selling the 7X42 UVHD +, I think the only way that regret will ever go away is if the Noctivids are eventually offered in 7x42. The NVD's focus wheel action has always remained exactly the same. Only the resistance between the 8x42 and 10x42 is ever-so-slightly stouter with the 8x42's, the action is otherwise identical and wonderful.

Nice Capture! :t: Ted

Thanks,the iPhone 7 Plus has a fairly capable camera.
 

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For such as design flaw to be in a top tier binocular was inexcusable and the failure to fix it properly was borderline arrogant. /QUOTE]

I really sympathise with you for your horrible experience, it must be so disappointing. Sloppy focusers are one of the things that I really can't tolerate.

However it is easy for stuff like this to not occur at all during prototyping and pre-production and to only become apparent in full production after producing some hundreds or thousands of units, when all the possible variations allowed by the production tolerances become apparent.

The company then has to figure out if this only affects a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent % of production or something more frequent. This is not an easy task.

The true test of course is how the company then deals with customers who have got the problem and how to screen the hundreds or thousands of units spread around the world which may or may not suffer from the issue.

One thing is for sure: sending a unit back with the same fault as when it was sent in for rectification is idiotic.

Lee
 
As others have said, this would seem to be an already long known UV 'issue'. For example this thread (esp. post #54 and #60) from 2004:- http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=14047&page=3. It appears that the vast majority of UV's have some 'play', or a very small amount of slack when changing direction in focus.

I have just bought a pair of UVHD+ 7x42 to compliment my NV 10x42 and I have to say that I am absolutely delighted with them. dwever, I read your comment, 'and I really regret selling the 7X42 UVHD +, I think the only way that regret will ever go away is if the Noctivids are eventually offered in 7x42', with interest(!) and it confirms my feelings about the UV 7x42!

For the record, my new UV 7x also have a very small amount of slack when changing focus direction, but it really is a very small amount and it doesn't bother me at all if that's just basically how UV's are. What becomes apparent from some of the comments in the above thread is that many people simply don't notice this issue, whereas for some it is very noticeable. I highly suspect that the variation in the amount of play or slack reported is very much more to do with how noticeable (or not) it is to the individual user, rather than any significant sample variation. That, of course, is just my speculation based on a sample of one!8-P

I'll also confirm that the focus on the NV is absolutely perfect. No play and beautifully smooth.
 
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Do you still have your 7x42 HD Plus? How are you finding them overall?

My wife has Mr. Wever's old 7x42 UV HD+. They were originally purchased for me to use, but my wife liked them a lot, and since I still had my old 7x42 FL's anyway, they became hers.

They exhibit no problems, including focus problems. Focus wheel is fairly smooth. Not EDG-smooth (because - let's face it - nothing is as smooth as an EDG focus wheel), but better characteristics overall than my 42 and 50mm EL's.
 
They exhibit no problems, including focus problems.

Would you say though that there is absolutely no delay or any kind of resistance of any sort when changing focus direction? I'm not trying to put words into your mouth, but I'd be interested in establishing whether or not, or to what extent, this issue is generic and the main differences are in people's perception, or whether there really are big differences due to sample variation. I have to admit that I find that somewhat unlikely.
 
As others have said, this would seem to be an already long known UV 'issue'. For example this thread (esp. post #54 and #60) from 2004:- http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=14047&page=3. It appears that the vast majority of UV's have some 'play', or a very small amount of slack when changing direction in focus.

I have just bought a pair of UVHD+ 7x42 to compliment my NV 10x42 and I have to say that I am absolutely delighted with them. dwever, I read your comment, 'and I really regret selling the 7X42 UVHD +, I think the only way that regret will ever go away is if the Noctivids are eventually offered in 7x42', with interest(!) and it confirms my feelings about the UV 7x42!

For the record, my new UV 7x also have a very small amount of slack when changing focus direction, but it really is a very small amount and it doesn't bother me at all if that's just basically how UV's are. What becomes apparent from some of the comments in the above thread is that many people simply don't notice this issue, whereas for some it is very noticeable. I highly suspect that the variation in the amount of play or slack reported is very much more to do with how noticeable (or not) it is to the individual user, rather than any significant sample variation. That, of course, is just my speculation based on a sample of one!8-P

I'll also confirm that the focus on the NV is absolutely perfect. No play and beautifully smooth.

Thanks for your contribution, Mike. There are a couple of issues here.

Back in 2004, there were only Ultravid BRs, not HDs. The BRs were known to have horrid focusers, so we're not comparing like with like.

As I mentioned previously, my 8x32 HD Plus is absolutely fine, as was the 10x42 HD Plus I tried out at the RSPB even. My 8x32 HD and the RSPB 7x42 HD Plus both have appreciable amounts of slack, so there most definitely is sample variation.
 
Thanks for your contribution, Mike. There are a couple of issues here.

Back in 2004, there were only Ultravid BRs, not HDs. The BRs were known to have horrid focusers, so we're not comparing like with like.

As I mentioned previously, my 8x32 HD Plus is absolutely fine, as was the 10x42 HD Plus I tried out at the RSPB even. My 8x32 HD and the RSPB 7x42 HD Plus both have appreciable amounts of slack, so there most definitely is sample variation.

John, thanks for this. I had thought that the only thing that was changed in the UV line were the optics, so thanks for the correction. However, the evidence from this thread suggests that the UV HD's still have a similar issue with regard to slack, even if the focuser is smoother in general.

It occurred to me, after I had made my last post, that the truth may very well be that there is some sample variation as well as variation in individual perception of the problem.

What was interesting in the old thread was that there were at least two examples given where an individual who was aware of the problem in his own bins tried someone else's (and in one case a number of other peoples bins) and found the same issue in theirs, but that those people were not aware of the problem until this person pointed it out! So, sample variation plus individual perception.

I do hope that you get yours sorted out to your satisfaction! Please give us a full report on what Leica say!

Cheers, Michael.
 
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I am down to only my Noctivids and Zeiss, and I really regret selling the 7X42 UVHD +, I think the only way that regret will ever go away is if the Noctivids are eventually offered in 7x42.

My wife has Mr. Wever's old 7x42 UV HD+. They were originally purchased for me to use, but my wife liked them a lot, and since I still had my old 7x42 FL's anyway, they became hers.

Take good care of her. *sniff* She particularly likes international trips in the back of the carry-on. Don't let her around UVHD+ 8x42's, she can't help drawing attention to herself with her superior eye relief and brightness. Here she is faithfully spotting a fish eagle in Akagera, Rwanda, April, 2016. I went back to Rwanda in 2017 with a Noctivid, it just seemed . . . well I can't go on.
 

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