Woodchat
Cogito ergo sum
Yep, I'd agree with that. This bird wasn't seen by anyone on the reserve so it won't count in the UW records (unless it comes back).
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Upton Warren (13 Viewers)
- Thread starter andythomas
- Start date
Yep, I'd agree with that. This bird wasn't seen by anyone on the reserve so it won't count in the UW records (unless it comes back).
Phil Andrews
It's only Rock and Roller but I like it
Hi Sy - how many Goldies were present this morning?
Phil Andrews
It's only Rock and Roller but I like it
Hi Laurie - the extent of the "Upton Warren recording area" does vary from the boundaries from the reserve itself. For example the recording area includes the Sailing Pool and Education Reserve, both outside the Trust's ownership. I tend to take the view that it is the birds seen during your visit to the reserve (ie all part of the experience) which includes the Moors, Flashes, the adjoining fields viewed from the reserve, the Sailing Pool and the paths around it, the Education Reserve and the Sailing Centre car parks. Black Redstart used to be on the reserve list on the basis a bird AFJ saw some half a mile away near the railway track!
Fly-overs are difficult; which is more valid - a bird seen from the reserve but clearly positioned a mile to the south or a bird seen from outside the reserve but clearly flying over it??
Woodchat
Cogito ergo sum
The inclusion of that Black Redstart was always a bit of a farce IMO. You might as well count the one I had in my garden in 2003!8-P
Phil Andrews
It's only Rock and Roller but I like it
Wouldnt disagree mate!
Mike reports that Sy had 4 Goldies this morning at the Flashes.
Mike reports that Sy had 4 Goldies this morning at the Flashes.
Brian Stretch
Well-known member
A mile away! Can't count those Phil, unless of course you are at a large site like Rutland Water where you could feasibly be a mile from a bird and it is still on site. If the descripton of the Glossy Ibis flight path is correct, it's hard to see how the bird flew over the Moors Pool, but who knows.....
Brian
___________
Birding Today
Phil Andrews
It's only Rock and Roller but I like it
Hi Brian - I was using a mile to exaggerate the point but I suppose this could be the scenario with lets say a crane which should be identifiable at that range.
Brian Stretch
Well-known member
Hi Phil,
Personally speaking, it makes no odds if the bird is clearly identifiable. If it's a mile away or 1/2 a mile away from the site boundary, it can't really constitute a record for that site. If it's over adjacent fields or woods, then fine, but there has to be realistic cut-off point.
At the extreme end, it's like being at Bredon's Hardwick and you see a Hen Harrier over fields west of the River Avon. You are in Worcestershire but the bird in Gloucestershire. Just because you can clearly see it from Worcestershire, doesn't mean you can add it to your Worcestershire list.
Brian
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Birding Today
Phil Andrews
It's only Rock and Roller but I like it
"Just because you can clearly see it from Worcestershire, doesn't mean you can add it to your Worcestershire list."
I'd better get the Tipex out then
In all fairness the Monty's Harrier was probably never closer than 300 metres to the reserve - I suppose its a question of personal ""comfortableness".
I'd better get the Tipex out then
In all fairness the Monty's Harrier was probably never closer than 300 metres to the reserve - I suppose its a question of personal ""comfortableness".
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Woodchat
Cogito ergo sum
I think we've always used the criteria of being seen 'on or from' the reserve inc sailing centre and edy. Personally, I'm comfortable with this distinction and consider it valid. I accept others may disagree and that's ok as far as I'm concerned- it's a free country. The claimed Glossy Ibis didn't meet these criteria.
UW82
Well-known member
Dave, what if a county boundary is within your "on or from" criteria and a bird could possibly be on eg the Gloucestershire side, should that bird be counted?
Des.
Woodchat
Cogito ergo sum
My comments relate specifically to UW and whether or not the observer can count it on their reserve list. Thankfully such issues do not apply.
Sy V
Well-known member
A late confirmation of 4 Golden Plover flying off at 0710 this morning, Phil.
Brian Stretch
Well-known member
Fair enough Dave. If everyone at Upton lists on the same criteria, then I guess it makes no odds.
I only count birds seen in the very immediate airspace of a given area. FWIW, c10 years ago I was birding at Grimley and saw a message come on the pager stating that there was an Osprey circling over the Flashes. So I got my scope and pointed it at the Wychbold masts, cranked it up to 60x and amazingly could see a large raptor circling just to the side of the masts. Now I can't be 100% sure it was the Osprey, but it almost certainly was. Even if I could have determined that it was, there is no way it would go on my Grimley list (not that I needed it at that point).
At my other adopted local patch of Staines Reservoir, amazingly I still need Red Kite (fairly regular in the area) even though I've seen one over the adjacent King George VI Reservoir which was viewable from the causeway at Staines. Unless one comes directly over Staines, it's not going on the list. They are two well defined sites separated by a main road so it's easy to know where to draw the line.
Brian
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Birding Today
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upstarts1979
Well-known member
Another all-dayer 8am till 5pm.
A cool easterly breeze, cloud only clearing briefly and generally hazy.
Sailing Pool: little grebe - 1st I have seen on there.
Moors: GCG 3, Little Grebe 3, cormorant 20, Mute Swan 8, Greylag 16, Shoveler 20 spread thinly today, with none of the usual group pirouetting. Teal 40, Pochard very difficult to count as not all birds could be seen from any one hide but at least 20. Tufted 30, coot 200+, water rail very vociferous. Lapwing 600 - 650, Snipe c10, Curlew 15 - mostly in amy's marsh. Herring gull c15, LBBG c20, good numbers of passerines around most noticeably, goldcrest 2, redwing 25, fieldfare 10, goldfinch 10, linnet, siskin, rook 2, raven, also treecreeper. kingfisher, green and great sp woodpecker,
North Moors water rail at least 2 seen and heard, blackcap at least 2 possibly 3 in the spindle thicket opposite the chestnut tree.
Started and finished at the FlashesThe morning session was a bit uneventful mostly spent with Gert and SyV measuring up the new hide:-C
The evening however was much more productive. Although looking from ground level at he base of the new, 'yet to be finished hide' the atmosphere was quite enthralling. Most prominent was the gathering of the pre roosting starlings, which from a low level enables you to see the small groups coming in low above the ground. After a few processions from the dancing swarms, many birds dropped into the 3rd flash reed bed. Several hundred others perched in tall trees before swooping on mass into the reeds. From here their endless chattering continued almost till dark. A conservative estimate of 2000 birds constituted the highest roost I can ever remember. Also roosting were 400 BHG, 450 Lapwing, 20 Curlew and at least 3 Green Sands. A little owl called and 2 snipe flew over.
By 11.30am Dave J had recorded 65 species so approx 70 species were recorded today on the reserve.
A good day all-roundBJohn
A cool easterly breeze, cloud only clearing briefly and generally hazy.
Sailing Pool: little grebe - 1st I have seen on there.
Moors: GCG 3, Little Grebe 3, cormorant 20, Mute Swan 8, Greylag 16, Shoveler 20 spread thinly today, with none of the usual group pirouetting. Teal 40, Pochard very difficult to count as not all birds could be seen from any one hide but at least 20. Tufted 30, coot 200+, water rail very vociferous. Lapwing 600 - 650, Snipe c10, Curlew 15 - mostly in amy's marsh. Herring gull c15, LBBG c20, good numbers of passerines around most noticeably, goldcrest 2, redwing 25, fieldfare 10, goldfinch 10, linnet, siskin, rook 2, raven, also treecreeper. kingfisher, green and great sp woodpecker,
North Moors water rail at least 2 seen and heard, blackcap at least 2 possibly 3 in the spindle thicket opposite the chestnut tree.
Started and finished at the FlashesThe morning session was a bit uneventful mostly spent with Gert and SyV measuring up the new hide:-C
The evening however was much more productive. Although looking from ground level at he base of the new, 'yet to be finished hide' the atmosphere was quite enthralling. Most prominent was the gathering of the pre roosting starlings, which from a low level enables you to see the small groups coming in low above the ground. After a few processions from the dancing swarms, many birds dropped into the 3rd flash reed bed. Several hundred others perched in tall trees before swooping on mass into the reeds. From here their endless chattering continued almost till dark. A conservative estimate of 2000 birds constituted the highest roost I can ever remember. Also roosting were 400 BHG, 450 Lapwing, 20 Curlew and at least 3 Green Sands. A little owl called and 2 snipe flew over.
By 11.30am Dave J had recorded 65 species so approx 70 species were recorded today on the reserve.
A good day all-roundB
John
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wheatearlp
Well-known member
'On or from' is always going to be contentious. Where do you draw the line? From a personal point of view I would either have to be on the reserve and ID a species or, and difficult to prove on occassion as Laurie has said, seen over the reserve from a position outside it. With the former I guess it's up to the individual as to how far away you are happy with. Mind you, we try harder on all-dayers to try and boost the list - House Sparrows in Stoke village for instance!
Referring to Brian's analogy re the Hen Harrier, that would surely be on your Gloucestershire list? I guess if there was a wholly separate reserve north of the Flashes then the Monty's would be on that list rather than the Upton list, but in that instance I guess the 'patch' would encompass both ... although it may not (Staines v. King George?)
Back to the ibis, before we worry whether or not it was over the reserve (and from info I've seen it seems doubtful, but I'm always willing to be proved wrong) it'll need to be submitted and accepted.
Mike
wheatearlp
Well-known member
Another all-dayer 8am till 5pm.
A cool easterly breeze, cloud only clearing briefly and generally hazy.
Sailing Pool: little grebe - 1st I have seen on there.
Moors: GCG 3, Little Grebe 3, cormorant 20, Mute Swan 8, Greylag 16, Shoveler 20 spread thinly today, with none of the usual group pirouetting. Teal 40, Pochard very difficult to count as not all birds could be seen from any one hide but at least 20. Tufted 30, coot 200+, water rail very vociferous. Lapwing 600 - 650, Snipe c10, Curlew 15 - mostly in amy's marsh. Herring gull c15, LBBG c20, good numbers of passerines around most noticeably, goldcrest 2, redwing 25, fieldfare 10, goldfinch 10, linnet, siskin, rook 2, raven, also treecreeper. kingfisher, green and great sp woodpecker,
North Moors water rail at least 2 seen and heard, blackcap at least 2 possibly 3 in the spindle thicket opposite the chestnut tree.
Started and finished at the FlashesThe morning session was a bit uneventful mostly spent with Gert and SyV measuring up the new hide:-C
The evening however was much more productive. Although looking from ground level at he base of the new, 'yet to be finished hide' the atmosphere was quite enthralling. Most prominent was the gathering of the pre roosting starlings, which from a low level enables you to see the small groups coming in low above the ground. After a few processions from the dancing swarms, many birds dropped into the 3rd flash reed bed. Several hundred others perched in tall trees before swooping on mass into the reeds. From here their endless chattering continued almost till dark. A conservative estimate of 2000 birds constituted the highest roost I can ever remember. Also roosting were 400 BHG, 450 Lapwing, 20 Curlew and at least 3 Green Sands. A little owl called and 2 snipe flew over.
By 11.30am Dave J had recorded 65 species so approx 70 species were recorded today on the reserve.
A good day all-roundB
13 Mute Swans earlier during my brief visit (DJ & MP will confirm this outrageous claim
), before extending my patch to Somerset (or whatever county Chew is in these days!) :-O:-O
Sy V
Well-known member
13 Mute Swans earlier during my brief visit (DJ & MP will confirm this outrageous claim
Not outrageous Mike, we had 14 yesterday (12 and 2 juvs).
upstarts1979
Well-known member
even more outrageous 15 last week8-P
Sy V
Well-known member
Here are a few shots from today... not a bird in sight!
The waning crescent moon was my sole visible companion for the first 30 minutes or so as I sat on the Flashes bench this morning.
All fungus shots were taken on the North Moors trail. The first (Common Puffballs) were under the tree canopy and the others were out in the open alongside the path. Kudos to the recent work parties who have transformed this long-neglected area of the Reserve.
The waning crescent moon was my sole visible companion for the first 30 minutes or so as I sat on the Flashes bench this morning.
All fungus shots were taken on the North Moors trail. The first (Common Puffballs) were under the tree canopy and the others were out in the open alongside the path. Kudos to the recent work parties who have transformed this long-neglected area of the Reserve.
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