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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Swarovski Sale? (1 Viewer)

Well, if the people here arguing for a "Swarovski Worthy" upgrade to the 8x30SLC want it to be in that category they will have to compromise somewhere.

8x32s are a dime a dozen and an 8x30SLC that focuses moving the objective lens and has the focus wheel at the front of the hinge isn't going to compete with them but a 7x30SLC "SPECIAL"binocular with a wider FOV and ER of 16-17mm has a chance.

I will buy one!

Bob
 
Well, if the people here arguing for a "Swarovski Worthy" upgrade to the 8x30SLC want it to be in that category they will have to compromise somewhere.

8x32s are a dime a dozen and an 8x30SLC that focuses moving the objective lens and has the focus wheel at the front of the hinge isn't going to compete with them but a 7x30SLC "SPECIAL"binocular with a wider FOV and ER of 16-17mm has a chance.

I will buy one!

Bob

Me, too! But only if Steve gives me his 8x30 SLC as a trade-in, which should at fetch half the price of the new bin if not more. His old 7x30 SLC was worth $400, more than mooreorless paid for it 20 years prior!

I think this not only shows how Swaros hold their value. or in this case, appreciated, but how valued the 7x30 model was that the store was willing to give him half off on the trade-in (the 8x30 was $800 at the time, then they went up to $1,100 before being discontinued).

I'm not sure why 7x bins have fallen in disfavor, that's a topic worthy of its own thread. You would think as the aging baby boomer population has grown older, interest in 7x bins would have increased rather than decreased.

But the engineers designing the bins are probably young guys who are not the least concerned about "the shakes." I also like 7x because of its greater depth of field and the larger exit pupils.

Brock
 
Well, if the people here arguing for a "Swarovski Worthy" upgrade to the 8x30SLC want it to be in that category they will have to compromise somewhere.

8x32s are a dime a dozen and an 8x30SLC that focuses moving the objective lens and has the focus wheel at the front of the hinge isn't going to compete with them but a 7x30SLC "SPECIAL"binocular with a wider FOV and ER of 16-17mm has a chance.

I will buy one!

Bob

Bob, I think the front-focuser SLC days are a thing of the past, regardless of whether Swaro decides to offer an 7x or 8x. Much more likely would be an 8x30/32 with the same internal focusing lens and mechanism as the current SLCs. The only birding "compromise," perhaps, would be a short-focus distance of about 9-10'. However, that's quite a bit better than the old 8x30 SLC (13.2'), and judging by the image quality of my 8x42 SLC-HD it would be price-competitive with Z, L, and N — and potentially a market leader. So, although it's a lovely thought, Jan's call for noblesse oblige might be premature.

If Swaro were to offer a 7x, which I think is unlikely, it would have to retain the same AFOV as the 8x, which unfortunately was not the case with the old 7x30 SLC (50.4˚).

Ed
 
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Ed,

Did the old 7x30 and 8x30 have different bodies? I always thought they were the same.

That narrow AFOV didn't bother lots of people it seems. I don't think it will if a new "special edition" of it comes out either. Swarovski ought to be able to tweak it enough to make the FOV a little bigger and put in phase coated prisms.

As I recall Steve got a better trade in for his 7x30 from the "Lost Creek Shoe Shop" on his new 8x30 SLC because it was a 7x30; although the recent refurbishing it had also was a factor. It never had phase coatings and did not get them during the refurbishing. I also seem to remember that the Lost Creek Shoe Shop was able to sell it rather quickly.

Bob
 
Ed,

Did the old 7x30 and 8x30 have different bodies? I always thought they were the same.

That narrow AFOV didn't bother lots of people it seems. I don't think it will if a new "special edition" of it comes out either. Swarovski ought to be able to tweak it enough to make the FOV a little bigger and put in phase coated prisms.

As I recall Steve got a better trade in for his 7x30 from the "Lost Creek Shoe Shop" on his new 8x30 SLC because it was a 7x30; although the recent refurbishing it had also was a factor. It never had phase coatings and did not get them during the refurbishing. I also seem to remember that the Lost Creek Shoe Shop was able to sell it rather quickly.

Bob

Hi Bob,

Look on pg. 12 of the 1995 Eagle Optics Catalog, where it says that all SLCs (including the 7x30 MkII) were phase corrected. Unfortunately, there isn't a picture, but I did handle one at a gun show many years ago. The 8x30 and 7x30 MkIIs were both P-coated at the time they became waterproofed with a glass plate over the objective. Prior to that the original Mk1s were neither waterproof nor P-coated. However, the 7x30 was also never a "W" (wide-body) model, which I really think would be unacceptable on today's market, except for a few old codgers of course. ;)

Also note that Swarovski never upgraded from Mk1 to MkII, although they did upgrade from MkII to MkIII. The reason was that the old optics could be moved from the II to III bodies, — and I am a beneficiary of that policy. I think Steve got a great deal getting that much trade-in towards an 8x30 SLC.

Ed
 
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Hi Ed,

Thanks for that. It's real interesting reading! I noticed that the 7x30 SLC had a FOV of 390'@1000 yards to the 8x30s 414.' That would have been wide enough for me and as far as I'm concerned it wouldn't need any "tweaking." But then I'm an old codger.;) I wonder if Steve's older model had a smaller FOV?

Maybe Steve can jump in here?

Bob
 
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Bob,

Of course I wouldn't question a really old codger's criteria for satisfaction, but note that we're talking about an apparent FOV difference of 52.09˚ vs. 63.2˚, and the AFOV determines "tunnel vision" on the narrow side and "perceptual presence" on the wide side. Wide-angle AFOVs of 70˚+ can provide a pretty strong sense of "being present" in the scene, although even after all these years it's still hard to quantify. My personal minimum is about 60˚ AFOV, which is just met by the 7x42 B/GATP (60.11˚). Anything less and I'm looking through a straw.

But not all codger's are the same, I guess? Still, Steve did sell his 7x30 SLC for some reason, so I'm curious. Where is he when we need him? |:$|

Ed
 
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I have had a SLC 7x30 since 1997. I have had (2 )of them- one I bought in '97 ( a 1996 manufacture date) and when I sold that one in 2009 I regretted it almost immediately. In 2010 I bought a 1999 model from a forum member here.

It is a very nice binocular- and competes well with current offerings IMO. The ER is greater than what is spec. On that EO sheet. And the weights are wrong- The 8x30 is I believe 19 oz or so, and the 7x30 weighs more - almost 20.8 oz I believe. The ER on the 7x30 is more than the 8x30. The 7x30 has a 18mm ER. The 8x30 was 15.

Mine originally came with push in pull out eyecups, but around 1998 Swaro switched to twist in and out ones and could be retro fitted perfectly on to the older push in pull out ones. Swaro sent me new eyecups for my original pair. When the 1999 one was made it had the twist in style. Swaro last made the 7x30 in 2001- which was (2) years before the 8x30 got the Swarobright coatings that were originally started by Swarovski in 1999. The 8x30 did not get that until 2003- and none of the 7x30's MK III's ever ended up with that since production was ended.

As far as FOV on the 7x30- specs are 378 ft/1000 yds. The FOV on my 7x30 has never bothered me in the least. And one thing on the 7x30 that I have ( MK III) when compared to the 8x30 SLC, it has a MUCH flatter field. It is almost crisp to very edge. And I have compared these 7x30 MK III to a number of 8x30's- both MK III's and SLC NEU's; and the 7x30 has a crisp FOV almost to very edge, with hardly any drop off at all. It is quite pleasing.

I had read somewhere that the 7x30 had a different EP design compared to the 8x30, but I am not sure what the difference is. I read that that was one reason that the 7x30 was heavier.

I may have more info, but that is all I can think of off the top of my head.


Well, that is enough for me- and I am sure way more than you all needed to hear.

Cheers-B :)
 
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I seriously question if anybody really "needs" top quality optics. From my experience at the Birdwatching Digest-sponsored "Big Sits," the birder who each year correctly identifies the most birds has the least expensive binoculars. Why? Because he has the best ear for bird songs, he is the best a mimicking birds to get them out of the woods and into the open, and when they appear, he is the best at identifying their field markings. He owns a humble but competent $200 Pentax 8x36 NV, and he is the envy (NV) of his fellow bird club members who own expensive Swaro SLCs and ELs.

I'd like to conduct a double blind test with an expert birder using a cheapo Nikon 7x35 Aculon and a $2K+ Leica 7x42 Ubervid (or EDG or SLCneu) and find out if he/she really can ID birds better with an alpha than with the Aculon under sunny skies. Get a statistician to calculate how much better and see if the cost warrants the better ID performance. I can take a not so wild guess that it would not, not even close.

Are the alphas better built? Of course. Are the optics better? I would certainly hope so, but $2K better? Well, that's between you, your mate and your wallet. But the point is, nobody "needs" an alpha anymore than anybody needs a Mercedes.

Here's another test I call the Piaget Effect. It's a bit sneaky, but it would be interesting to try. Let's say someone replaced the green armoring on the 8x32 Sightron II with gray armoring and put a Zeiss blue shield on it and then handed them out free to hunting guides, telling them, this is Zeiss's latest and greatest, an 8x32 SF. Just in case the hunting guides catch on, let's make them confederates in the ruse. So they start using the new faux 8x32 SFs, and their duckling hunters take a look through them. How much you want to bet that right after the hunt or even before it's over, the hunters are on their cell phones ordering an 8x32 SF from their Zeiss dealer?

This is not a put down of hunters, the same thing would likely happen at a birding event if Steve Ingraham had a faux 8x32 SF. The phone at Zeiss dealers would be ringing off the hook.

Why? (I'm glad you keep asking questions ;)). Partly human nature, partly Madison Ave. Everybody wants to own "the best." If that weren't true, we'd all be driving Honda Civics, realizing that spending more for a car is simply throwing money out the window.

Brock

Good post Brock, I missed this some how.
 
Good post Brock, I missed this some how.

Thanks. Jan thought I was comparing "apples to bananas" but I think he missed my point about how people can be influenced by the perception of quality, an idea that was echoed by the outdoor writer that jraider quoted on this thread:

Brand Bias and Loyalties

Seems almost too self-evident to question, after all, if people weren't influenced by ads that use hyperbole, lies of commission and omission, and that appeal to our deepest fears and greatest hopes, we wouldn't be constantly bombarded by print ads, online ads, and TV and radio commercials. Some ads even contain subliminal messages to bypass your conscious mind and release "monsters from the ID" (a phrase borrowed from one of my fav sci-fi movies, Forbidden Planet).

Obviously, marketing and advertising work to the degree where companies are willing to spend huge sums of money to sell their products. "You can't fool all the people all of the time," but you can fool enough people enough of the time to turn a tidy profit.

That is not to say that there aren't good products out there, too, but even companies such as Swarovski use sales and marketing to launch new products and stay ahead of their competition. The whole "SF" debate with Zeiss shows how marketing terms can generate interest.

Brock
 
I seriously question if anybody really "needs" top quality optics.

Of course not, at least for birding, because almost nobody "needs" to even be a birder.

From my experience at the Birdwatching Digest-sponsored "Big Sits," the birder who each year correctly identifies the most birds has the least expensive binoculars. Why? Because he has the best ear for bird songs, he is the best a mimicking birds to get them out of the woods and into the open, and when they appear, he is the best at identifying their field markings. He owns a humble but competent $200 Pentax 8x36 NV, and he is the envy (NV) of his fellow bird club members who own expensive Swaro SLCs and ELs.

Birding skill is more important than bins for sure. You reference a big sit, but the difference is even more substantial when you set birders to "cover" an unfamiliar area during a count. Being a really great birder is also (and in large measure) about "reading" the landscape (habitat) and thus being able to find the rarities within it. That said, the best birders I know (who are as accomplished as I can imagine is humanly possible with vocal ID etc) have pretty darn good to superb binoculars, and they benefit from them. I'm sure your birder would too, unless he is already committed to a birding style where he excludes visual ID of any birds at what would be the limits.

I'd like to conduct a double blind test with an expert birder using a cheapo Nikon 7x35 Aculon and a $2K+ Leica 7x42 Ubervid (or EDG or SLCneu) and find out if he/she really can ID birds better with an alpha than with the Aculon under sunny skies. Get a statistician to calculate how much better and see if the cost warrants the better ID performance. I can take a not so wild guess that it would not, not even close.

I am quite sure that you are wrong. I am also quite sure that most birding, and certainly not the the best birding in my life, has not been under sunny skies. As someone who has spent a fair amount of time birding in the sunny deserts of Arabia, I can tell you that even under sunny skies, when the sun is overhead or in front of you, alpha bins with excellent contrast and color substantially outperform lesser bins. Under those conditions, with much grazing light and high contrast, it is as if many field marks disappear with cheap bins. Field marks are always handy, even when you know birds by other means.


Are the alphas better built? Of course. Are the optics better? I would certainly hope so, but $2K better? Well, that's between you, your mate and your wallet. But the point is, nobody "needs" an alpha anymore than anybody needs a Mercedes.

Agreed, at least for those of us who don't make our living being the best bird guide or contract driver we can be.

Here's another test I call the Piaget Effect. It's a bit sneaky, but it would be interesting to try. Let's say someone replaced the green armoring on the 8x32 Sightron II with gray armoring and put a Zeiss blue shield on it and then handed them out free to hunting guides, telling them, this is Zeiss's latest and greatest, an 8x32 SF. Just in case the hunting guides catch on, let's make them confederates in the ruse. So they start using the new faux 8x32 SFs, and their duckling hunters take a look through them. How much you want to bet that right after the hunt or even before it's over, the hunters are on their cell phones ordering an 8x32 SF from their Zeiss dealer?

This is not a put down of hunters, the same thing would likely happen at a birding event if Steve Ingraham had a faux 8x32 SF. The phone at Zeiss dealers would be ringing off the hook.

Why? (I'm glad you keep asking questions ;)). Partly human nature, partly Madison Ave. Everybody wants to own "the best."

That test doesn't prove that the bins are equivalent in performance, only that your testers aren't really pushing them to their limits.

I think your test would back-fire if done on a population who is optically savvy, be they hunters or birders. I have very high standards for the top makes, which is why I'm so often disappointed by their flaws (e.g. the astigmatism and blue-bias of the Zeiss FL series, the rolling ball and slow focus of the 8.5x42 Swarovision, the poor close focus, high CA, and narrower FOV of the full-sized Leica Ultravids). Those flaws are easily perceived, just as it is sometimes easy to pick out the lemon and cherry from a set of units of the same model (a _much_ harder task than simply overcoming label-induced bias in expectations). I don't think expectations ultimately have much effect on final assessment when you are dealing with a user who actually knows what they are looking for when testing a bin. Another point I'd make is that many of us optics nuts have a special fondness for budget models, so if anything, we are biased toward (and more forgiving of the flaws) loving "cheap" bins that perform well. I know I love my Browning 8x32 and my Nikon 8x30 EII (which each cost a little over $200).

If that weren't true, we'd all be driving Honda Civics, realizing that spending more for a car is simply throwing money out the window...

As you know from our earlier conversations, I do drive a Honda Civic (1994 model). But that's because all I need a car to do is get me from point to point reliably and as cheaply as possible so I can use my uber-bins to see birds better than you think is necessary :)

--AP
 
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Of course not, at least for birding, because almost nobody "needs" to even be a birder.



Birding skill is more important than bins for sure. You reference a big sit, but the difference is even more substantial when you set birders to "cover" an unfamiliar area during a count. Being a really great birder is also (and in large measure) about "reading" the landscape (habitat) and thus being able to find the rarities within it. That said, the best birders I know (who are as accomplished as I can imagine is humanly possible with vocal ID etc) have pretty darn good to superb binoculars, and they benefit from them. I'm sure your birder would too, unless he is already committed to a birding style where he excludes visual ID of any birds at what would be the limits.



I am quite sure that you are wrong. I am also quite sure that most birding, and certainly not the the best birding in my life, has not been under sunny skies. As someone who has spent a fair amount of time birding in the sunny deserts of Arabia, I can tell you that even under sunny skies, when the sun is overhead or in front of you, alpha bins with excellent contrast and color substantially outperform lesser bins. Under those conditions, with much grazing light and high contrast, it is as if many field marks disappear with cheap bins. Field marks are always handy, even when you know birds by other means.




Agreed, at least for those of us who don't make our living being the best bird guide or contract driver we can be.



That test doesn't prove that the bins are equivalent in performance, only that your testers aren't really pushing them to their limits.

I think your test would back-fire if done on a population who is optically savvy, be they hunters or birders. I have very high standards for the top makes, which is why I'm so often disappointed by their flaws (e.g. the astigmatism and blue-bias of the Zeiss FL series, the rolling ball and slow focus of the 8.5x42 Swarovision, the poor close focus, high CA, and narrower FOV of the full-sized Leica Ultravids). Those flaws are easily perceived, just as it is sometimes easy to pick out the lemon and cherry from a set of units of the same model (a _much_ harder task than simply overcoming label-induced bias in expectations). I don't think expectations ultimately have much effect on final assessment when you are dealing with a user who actually knows what they are looking for when testing a bin. Another point I'd make is that many of us optics nuts have a special fondness for budget models, so if anything, we are biased toward (and more forgiving of the flaws) loving "cheap" bins that perform well. I know I love my Browning 8x32 and my Nikon 8x30 EII (which each cost a little over $200).



As you know from our earlier conversations, I do drive a Honda Civic (1994 model). But that's because all I need a car to do is get me from point to point reliably and as cheaply as possible so I can use my uber-bins to see birds better than you think is necessary :)

--AP

Dead right Alex. :t:

Lee
 
In regards to the swaro sale-

I did cave in and buy a 8x42 SLC from the local Cabelas yesturday- could not help myself. And that is quite a nice binocular. And even though I thought the sale price was good already, I got a nice bonus when I came home from the office. I had purchased the binocular at lunch time and when I came home I had a 10% off card sitting in my mail box from Cabelas- good for any purchase ( regular or sale) until 8/13/14. Well I called and spoke to CS and they said I could bring it in and I could return it and buy it again- or if I had my receipt handy, or they could just handle it over the phone. I said that that would be super- lets do it that way. Perfect!

The model that I bought had a great focus mechanism. But....... And this ought to get Brock excited ( but he may not see it, because I think I am on his ignore list - I think I hurt his feelings at some time in the past); but anyways back to the point- the store model 8x42 SLC focuser was absolutely terrible. And I am not exaggerating one bit. One of the most stiff, gritty, hard in all directions focus mechanisms that I have ever felt. After checking out the one in my box before buying it, I was checking out the store display model to check and see if a Vortex bino tripod adaptor ($19.99) would work on it- it does, which is nice. So, while doing so, I decided for kicks to check out the focus on the display model, and I was flabbergasted at how terrible it was. So, also for kicks, I had two of the fellas at the optics counter check out my focus on the one I was buying, and then test out the display model. They were also stunned at how bad it was. And these are folks that had no clue about the infamous Swarovski "soap opera" focus item- must not be BF people ;).

They just said- this is unacceptable: and they were right. I could not believe they had it out on the floor as a display item. Not IMO a good advertisement/ PR for Swarovski.
 
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Of course not, at least for birding, because almost nobody "needs" to even be a birder.

Birding skill is more important than bins for sure. You reference a big sit, but the difference is even more substantial when you set birders to "cover" an unfamiliar area during a count. Being a really great birder is also (and in large measure) about "reading" the landscape (habitat) and thus being able to find the rarities within it. That said, the best birders I know (who are as accomplished as I can imagine is humanly possible with vocal ID etc) have pretty darn good to superb binoculars, and they benefit from them. I'm sure your birder would too, unless he is already committed to a birding style where he excludes visual ID of any birds at what would be the limits.

I suggested that to him when he was impressed with the view through my 8x32 SE, but he said that doesn't need better binoculars. He's a tenured college professor, who could probably afford to buy an alpha unless he's got two ex-wives on alimony and a bunch a kids. Or perhaps he's just a cheapskate. I'm sure he's looked through his fellow birders ELs and SLCs. But at the end of the day (a long day, from 5 a.m. to 5 p.m.), he had most of the IDs on the list, so you can't argue with that.


I am quite sure that you are wrong. I am also quite sure that most birding, and certainly not the the best birding in my life, has not been under sunny skies. As someone who has spent a fair amount of time birding in the sunny deserts of Arabia, I can tell you that even under sunny skies, when the sun is overhead or in front of you, alpha bins with excellent contrast and color substantially outperform lesser bins. Under those conditions, with much grazing light and high contrast, it is as if many field marks disappear with cheap bins. Field marks are always handy, even when you know birds by other means.

I specified sunny skies, because the Aculon has a fair amount of field curvature, which I find harder to accommodate when light levels are low. I think you'd be surprised at how sharp the image is in the centerfield, particularly for this price point. I A/Bed the Aculon against my 8x32 SE by looking at the print on a transformer about 200 ft. away, and I was surprised to find that I couldn't see any difference between them, which is strange since the Aculon is 7x. The Aculon's image also looked brighter than the SE's.

Experienced users would probably note a difference between a lowly Porro and a top o' the line roof, perhaps contrast, better flare control, but I'm not talking about experienced users or optics nuts, I mean the casual birder or someone who uses bins for casually watching sports or wildlife. A lot of hunters own Monarchs, so even there.

I've handed bins to a guy who I knew had a different diopter setting since I wore glasses and he didn't, and yet when I explained how to set the diopter, he said, "no, it's fine." I took the bins back, turned the diopter setting all the way to one side, handed it back to him, and said, try it now, and he again said, "it's fine." The right side must have been way out of focus.

It takes an experienced eye to tell the difference between good quality but inexpensive Porros, second-tier roofs, and top of the line. The things we fret over - contrast, resolution, focuser speed, rolling ball, etc. -- are lost on most people who aren't binocular users. As long as they can see through them, that's good enough. It's like Frank writes in his signature about us being "obsessive."


Agreed, at least for those of us who don't make our living being the best bird guide or contract driver we can be.

That test doesn't prove that the bins are equivalent in performance, only that your testers aren't really pushing them to their limits.

I think your test would back-fire if done on a population who is optically savvy, be they hunters or birders. I have very high standards for the top makes, which is why I'm so often disappointed by their flaws (e.g. the astigmatism and blue-bias of the Zeiss FL series, the rolling ball and slow focus of the 8.5x42 Swarovision, the poor close focus, high CA, and narrower FOV of the full-sized Leica Ultravids). Those flaws are easily perceived, just as it is sometimes easy to pick out the lemon and cherry from a set of units of the same model (a _much_ harder task than simply overcoming label-induced bias in expectations). I don't think expectations ultimately have much effect on final assessment when you are dealing with a user who actually knows what they are looking for when testing a bin. Another point I'd make is that many of us optics nuts have a special fondness for budget models, so if anything, we are biased toward (and more forgiving of the flaws) loving "cheap" bins that perform well. I know I love my Browning 8x32 and my Nikon 8x30 EII (which each cost a little over $200).

Agreed, most sophisticated users can detect subtle difference, though not all. But when you think of how many binoculars are sold each year in the U.S., we comprise a small portion of that population.

As you know from our earlier conversations, I do drive a Honda Civic (1994 model). But that's because all I need a car to do is get me from point to point reliably and as cheaply as possible so I can use my uber-bins to see birds better than you think is necessary :)

--AP

Well, one must have one's priorities straight, and I see that you do! ;)

Brock
 
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I have had a SLC 7x30 since 1997. I have had (2 )of them- one I bought in '97 ( a 1996 manufacture date) and when I sold that one in 2009 I regretted it almost immediately. In 2010 I bought a 1999 model from a forum member here.

It is a very nice binocular- and competes well with current offerings IMO. The ER is greater than what is spec. On that EO sheet. And the weights are wrong- The 8x30 is I believe 19 oz or so, and the 7x30 weighs more - almost 20.8 oz I believe. The ER on the 7x30 is more than the 8x30. The 7x30 has a 18mm ER. The 8x30 was 15.

Mine originally came with push in pull out eyecups, but around 1998 Swaro switched to twist in and out ones and could be retro fitted perfectly on to the older push in pull out ones. Swaro sent me new eyecups for my original pair. When the 1999 one was made it had the twist in style. Swaro last made the 7x30 in 2001- which was (2) years before the 8x30 got the Swarobright coatings that were originally started by Swarovski in 1999. The 8x30 did not get that until 2003- and none of the 7x30's MK III's ever ended up with that since production was ended.

As far as FOV on the 7x30- specs are 378 ft/1000 yds. The FOV on my 7x30 has never bothered me in the least. And one thing on the 7x30 that I have ( MK III) when compared to the 8x30 SLC, it has a MUCH flatter field. It is almost crisp to very edge. And I have compared these 7x30 MK III to a number of 8x30's- both MK III's and SLC NEU's; and the 7x30 has a crisp FOV almost to very edge, with hardly any drop off at all. It is quite pleasing.

I had read somewhere that the 7x30 had a different EP design compared to the 8x30, but I am not sure what the difference is. I read that that was one reason that the 7x30 was heavier.

I may have more info, but that is all I can think of off the top of my head.


Well, that is enough for me- and I am sure way more than you all needed to hear.

Cheers-B :)

Stephen,

Many thanks for that. From Bob's post #44 I got the idea he was referring to the original MkI, which wasn't phase coated. He may have confused that with the lack of Swarobright prism coatings you mentioned.

In any event, you are quite correct, the 1995 EO catalog is WRONG!! The 7x30 SLC did weigh 20.8 oz. compared with the lighter 8x30W SLC that was 19.0 oz. Got that from an old Swaro catalog. The FOV numbers are also wrong, since the 8x30 SLC was 408', not 414'. As for ER, wrong again. The Swaro catalog didn't list it (imagine that), but the 1995 ABA catalog does say the 8x30 is 15 mm, which is my own assessment. ABA (American Birding Association) apparently didn't sell the 7x30, but the big surprise to me is your statement that it has an ER of 18 mm. That alone would justify a loss of FOV, since I'd be wearing glasses and that reduces/eliminates tunnel vision.

BTW, the 8x30 SLC is afflicted with SA of the exit pupil, which might have been absent in the 7x30, assuming it had a different eyepiece.

Regards,
Ed
 
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...

BTW, the 8x30 SLC is afflicted with SA of the exit pupil, which might have been absent in the 7x30, assuming it had a different eyepiece.

Regards,
Ed

Ed,

That explains why I kept getting image blackouts with Steve's 8x30 SLCneu. It only has 15mm ER, which should have been perfect for me without glasses. The 804 Audubon HR/5 has 14mm ER and it works like a charm, so does the 13.5mm ER on the 8x30 EII. The EII's ER is about my limit. Below 13mm I start having a hard time seeing the full FOV. At 10mm my eyelashes are brushing up against the EPs., and I have to back off.

Usually long ER bins cause image blackouts, such as the Pentax 20x60 PCF, but they are good for eyeglass wearers.

Optical engineers surely must know that SAEP causes image blackouts, so why then do they design EPs with SAEP such as those used in the 8x30 SLC and Nikon SE series? Is there some benefit to SAEP?

Brock
 
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Stephen,

Many thanks for that. From Bob's post #44 I got the idea he was referring to the original MkI, which wasn't phase coated. He may have confused that with the lack of Swarobright prism coatings you mentioned.

In any event, you are quite correct, the 1995 EO catalog is WRONG!! The 7x30 SLC did weigh 20.8 oz. compared with the lighter 8x30W SLC that was 19.0 oz. Got that from an old Swaro catalog. The FOV numbers are also wrong, since the 8x30 SLC was 408', not 414'. As for ER, wrong again. The Swaro catalog didn't list it (imagine that), but the 1995 ABA catalog does say the 8x30 is 15 mm, which is my own assessment. ABA (American Birding Association) apparently didn't sell the 7x30, but the big surprise to me is your statement that it has an ER of 18 mm. That alone would justify a loss of FOV, since I'd be wearing glasses and that reduces/eliminates tunnel vision.

BTW, the 8x30 SLC is afflicted with SA of the exit pupil, which might have been absent in the 7x30, assuming it had a different eyepiece.

Regards,
Ed

Ed,

I was referring to the original 8x30 binoculars (Mk 1?) which did not have phase coatings but I didn't know (or forgot) they were designated Mk 1. Steve has linked somewhere here on Bird Forum a copy of the binocular list he got from Mack Tool Company in Scranton, PA back in the 80s when he got his 7x30.

I had read here a while back that the 7x30 later got phase coatings but I wasn't aware that these were designated Mk 2. I thought that there weren't very many of them made.

The 414' FOV for the 8x30 noted above came from the PDF of the Eagle Optics catalog you sent to me which designates them Mark III. (7x30 B and 8x30 WB) That PDF says the 7x and 8x had 14mm ER. The weights given in the Eagle Optics PDF are 17.5 ounces for both which must be wrong.

Hope this clarifies things.

Bob
 
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...
The 414' FOV for the 8x30 noted above came from the PDF of the Eagle Optics catalog you sent to me which designates them Mark III. (7x30 B and 8x30 WB) That PDF says the 7x and 8x had 14mm ER. The weights given in the Eagle Optics PDF are 17.5 ounces for both which must be wrong.

Hope this clarifies things.

Bob

Bob,

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say in post #57. The EO specs are wrong, wrong, wrong.

But, I've got another one for ya. This chart is from the official 1994 Swarovski catalog. Note that both the 8x30 and 7x30 are shown as 590 grams = 20.8 oz. — the same as the 7x30.

When it rains it pours.

Ed
 

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