• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

new petition re driven grouse shooting (1 Viewer)

Signed: for the sake of Hen Harriers and other slaughtered birds of prey; for the sake of slaughtered Mountain Hares; for the sake of stopping the ruination of blanket bogs and the consequent adverse effect for climate change; for the sake of better up-stream management of moorland and the reduction of flooding; for the sake of environmental improvement and helping rewiilding projects; and so on.
 
We really have to get this problem sorted while there something left to save.We were out in Nidderdale last weekend and the skyline was full of moor burns. Why do we tolerate this type of behavior,some of which is illegal,just for a select few ?
 
Signed: for the sake of Hen Harriers and other slaughtered birds of prey; for the sake of slaughtered Mountain Hares; for the sake of stopping the ruination of blanket bogs and the consequent adverse effect for climate change; for the sake of better up-stream management of moorland and the reduction of flooding; for the sake of environmental improvement and helping rewiilding projects; and so on.

Hear hear
 
the rspb has 2 million members.imagine if just half voted on this what a difference we could make, i have been looking for goshawk, throughout feb and march the forest is sarounded by grouse moor? no sign of them i fear the worst.
 
I am against driven grouse shooting but I really question the effectiveness of the petition. Last time it was signed by around 0.075% of the electorate so if this time it reaches 0.1% of the electorate or even 0.2%, is it going to change anything?

All the petition seems to achieve is antangonise landowners and highlight to politicians that very few people actually care enough to sign it. Remember in Malta, 15% of their electorate signed a petition calling for an end to spring hunting.

I think we need new tactics than endless petitions and daily Twitter commentaries of the number of people who have signed it.
 
I am against driven grouse shooting but I really question the effectiveness of the petition. Last time it was signed by around 0.075% of the electorate so if this time it reaches 0.1% of the electorate or even 0.2%, is it going to change anything?

All the petition seems to achieve is antangonise landowners and highlight to politicians that very few people actually care enough to sign it. Remember in Malta, 15% of their electorate signed a petition calling for an end to spring hunting.

I think we need new tactics than endless petitions and daily Twitter commentaries of the number of people who have signed it.

Taken on its own, an e petition is not going to bring an end to driven grouse shooting. You're right to that extent and I guess Mark Avery would agree. But, the e petition should be seen as one amongst several tactics to achieve this end. Hen Harrier day, and its attendant publicity, is another tactic. I'm sure that any "new tactics" (that you allude to) would also be welcome in addition. The point is to keep the momentum going and to educate - and I think the e petition helps, to some extent, in doing this. (Moreover, I wouldn't be worried at all about antagonising a few landlords of grouse-shooting estates!)

Stewart
 
I am against driven grouse shooting but I really question the effectiveness of the petition. Last time it was signed by around 0.075% of the electorate so if this time it reaches 0.1% of the electorate or even 0.2%, is it going to change anything?

All the petition seems to achieve is antangonise landowners and highlight to politicians that very few people actually care enough to sign it. Remember in Malta, 15% of their electorate signed a petition calling for an end to spring hunting.

I think we need new tactics than endless petitions and daily Twitter commentaries of the number of people who have signed it.

The e-petition is a good tool and helps raise awareness. It's now at poll 3, poll 2 was signed by more people than poll 1 and poll 3 is likely to be signed by more than the first 2. It is helping to raise awareness and it's also a gauge as to how the awareness is spreading.

The poll is focusing people to bring others on-board, others who want to become involved but knew nothing about the problems on the grouse moors.

I hope we have as many polls as it takes to force a debate because we need one.
 
The e-petition is a good tool and helps raise awareness. It's now at poll 3, poll 2 was signed by more people than poll 1 and poll 3 is likely to be signed by more than the first 2. It is helping to raise awareness and it's also a gauge as to how the awareness is spreading.

The poll is focusing people to bring others on-board, others who want to become involved but knew nothing about the problems on the grouse moors.

I hope we have as many polls as it takes to force a debate because we need one.

I think the initial e-petition was certainly worthwhile in raising awareness but subsequent ones simply highlight that it is a minority interest. Even if it gets 100,000 signatures that does not guarantee a debate but means that a committee of MPs decide whether it is worthy of debate. Even if it gets a debate, few MPs are likely to turn up except those in constituencies with grouse moors, who are likely to defend the practice.

How can the RSPB have 2 million members but yet only a derisory 30,000 (or 0.075% of the electorate) sign this petition despite it being tweeted about 500 times by the same people every day? It highlights conservation has a problem and needs to work out how it can engage more people. Starting the petition again won't do this.

I think a more useful and interesting debate is how we as conservationists can attract more people to our cause. The current tactic of countless petitions calling to ban various things (from grouse shooting to excess packaging, baloon releases to seemingly every housing development) does not seem to be working.
 
i would love to see a t v documentary made, about how land owners have removed a creature from the british land scape ,with under cover cameras, The swinton estate in Yorkshire owned by the Cunliffe listers, high ranking torys lord massam.has a massive mixed shoot .tagged harriers misterously dissappear, not to long ago his keeper got a little fine and slap on the wrist after being caught setting traps for rapters around the pheasant pens , his keeper is under full control, answers directly to lord massam.yet ignoring the law,how do we tell the nation, that its not just rhino, and elephants in africa its happening much closer to home. keep the fight up keep pettisioning its all we got
 
Last edited:
I think the initial e-petition was certainly worthwhile in raising awareness but subsequent ones simply highlight that it is a minority interest. Even if it gets 100,000 signatures that does not guarantee a debate but means that a committee of MPs decide whether it is worthy of debate. Even if it gets a debate, few MPs are likely to turn up except those in constituencies with grouse moors, who are likely to defend the practice.

How can the RSPB have 2 million members but yet only a derisory 30,000 (or 0.075% of the electorate) sign this petition despite it being tweeted about 500 times by the same people every day? It highlights conservation has a problem and needs to work out how it can engage more people. Starting the petition again won't do this.

I think a more useful and interesting debate is how we as conservationists can attract more people to our cause. The current tactic of countless petitions calling to ban various things (from grouse shooting to excess packaging, baloon releases to seemingly every housing development) does not seem to be working.

The first poll ran for 12 months and attracted 22,399 signatures, the 2nd poll ran for 6 months after the government moved the goal posts and that one was signed by 33,665 people. The current poll has only been open for one week and has attracted almost 12,000 signatures already so it does look as if more people are becoming aware.

Only today the mainstream press in Scotland are reporting the current poll http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14386246.New_moves_to_ban_grouse_shooting_in_Scotland/ and that is only happening today because of the new poll. My guess is that this article and others like it will help inform people who have not signed before and who will now sign the new one, that clearly is a guess on my behalf.

As for the RSPB and the number of members it has, I don't know if their refusal to publicise the petition is because it's run by Mark Avery or because they are worried about upsetting people, only they can answer that.
 
Warning! This thread is more than 7 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top