• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Holy Grails of birding - 'Lost species' (1 Viewer)

Javan Lapwing, Pink-headed Duck, and Glaucous Macaw are almost certainly extinct. Himalayan Quail and Negros Fruit Dove probably extinct. Spix's Macaw may be extinct in the wild, although a sighting last year might have been a truly wild bird rather than a release. Jerdon's Courser hasn't been seen for a number of years and might be considered potentially extinct.

Blue-wattled Bulbul is generally considerd to be a hybrid.

Black-chinned Monarch is regularly seen.

As is Silvery Pigeon.
White-eyed River Martin... must be considered extinct by now?

Isn't the whole point of most Holy Grails, that they might be extinct, but there's a tiny chance of them still persisting somewhere? Jerdon's Courser has recently been refound in 1986 and again in 2009 after 86 and 33 (?) years without records, so I have no doubt that it's still out there

For species like Spix's Macaw or Javan Lapwing there have been recent (unconfirmed) records, while lots of potential habitat still needs to be surveyed for Pink-headed Duck or Himalayan Quail.

As for Black-headed Monarch and Silvery Pigeon: Both have recently been seen a handful of times and I might transfer them to the elusive species, but these records seemed so scattered that I believed that they still had the Holy Grail aura around them. Or did I miss some recent developments?
 
Last edited:
As for Black-headed Monarch and Silvery Pigeon: Both have recently been seen a handful of times and I might transfer them to the elusive species, but these records seemed so scattered that I believed that they still had the Holy Grail aura around them. Or did I miss some recent developments?

Black-chinned - this is relatively easily seen on Boano, half an hours walk from a village - it can be seen on any given day and although a bit shy, cannot really be described (now) as a holy grail. I saw it last year and I'm sure James has seen it a few times now.

James can say more about this - but I think this can probably seen on Simeuleu or nearby islands within a few days. This was perhaps a 'holy grail'..but not any more! It will be interesting to see if future bird tours keep picking this one up - I would love to go an look for it one day.

cheers, alan
 
Black-chinned - this is relatively easily seen on Boano, half an hours walk from a village - it can be seen on any given day and although a bit shy, cannot really be described (now) as a holy grail. I saw it last year and I'm sure James has seen it a few times now.

James can say more about this - but I think this can probably seen on Simeuleu or nearby islands within a few days. This was perhaps a 'holy grail'..but not any more! It will be interesting to see if future bird tours keep picking this one up - I would love to go an look for it one day.

cheers, alan

Two birds very close to my heart, Alan! Christmas Day morning, 2010 was a fine way to find that pigeon after google earth picked the spot for me. It has since been found on six different islands now (that I know of). I wouldn't disclose locations though due to hunting pressure for pet trade but I suspect it'll be found on a handful of others as it obviously moves around a fair bit, following the fruit. What would be interesting is if it still occurs on the islands off northern and western Borneo.

Boano (Black-chinned) Monarch is widespread in Boano's limestone forest, though further surveys should check the secondary forest away from the limestone to check how widespread it really is (and neighbouring islands). I'd say no longer a holy grail given the ease in seeing the bird now (though it was a real chore of a place to get to when we rediscovered it, and a 15km hike before we realised there was that village on the north side making it so easy now!).

James
 
Isn't the whole point of most Holy Grails, that they might be extinct, but there's a tiny chance of them still persisting somewhere? Jerdon's Courser has recently been refound in 1986 and again in 2009 after 86 and 33 (?) years without records, so I have no doubt that it's still out there

For species like Spix's Macaw or Javan Lapwing there have been recent (unconfirmed) records, while lots of potential habitat still needs to be surveyed for Pink-headed Duck or Himalayan Quail.

As for Black-headed Monarch and Silvery Pigeon: Both have recently been seen a handful of times and I might transfer them to the elusive species, but these records seemed so scattered that I believed that they still had the Holy Grail aura around them. Or did I miss some recent developments?

Sorry, have to disagree with some of your comments. First of all, if your definition of a holy grail bird is that it might be extinct, then few of the birds on your list qualify. They aren't extinct: they just aren't seen very often. Take Brown-banded Rail: if you are willing to spend a couple of months during migration looking at the bird trappers catch at Dalton Pass every night, there's a very good chance you will see one. It's not a holy grail (of Philippine birding, at least) because it might be extinct, but because almost nobody has seen it.

Same with Night Parrot - nobody who knew anything about the species seriously thought it was extinct. There were quite a few very credible sightings before it was actually photographed by John Young. I would say it's still the holy grail of Aussie birding.

Jerdon's Courser is an interesting one. It wasn't "refound" in 2009 after a gap of 33 years as you suggest - it was seen plenty of times in the intervening years by a reasonable number of birders (even me!). Sadly, it seems that sightings at the only known site have dried-up, and it hasn't been seen for several years. I am skeptical of the last claimed record - I believe it was made by a person trying to get funding to undertake a study, and I'm afraid I wouldn't take this at face value without further evidence. I would put Jerdon's Courser in the same boat as Slender-billed Curlew: there's a chance it might still exist, but show me the money.

Javan Lapwing: you're having a laugh! I take it you haven't actually been to Java? There's roughly the same chance this still exists as Reunion Solitaire. There are recent unconfirmed records of flying saucers too...

Pink-headed Duck - where is the "lots of potential habitat"? Most of its former range is densely-populated, intensively cultivated, and highly disturbed. I'm afraid that the days of large undisturbed areas of sub-Himalayan wetland are gone. People have looked quite hard and found no evidence that it's still there.

Himalayan Quail - sure it might still exist, but there's no evidence that it does. Mid-altitude parts of the Himalayas where it was known to occur are quite well-populated, quite heavily disturbed, and visited by many birders. I haven't heard of any credible claims, and I don't really agree that a bird's status should be based on what might be rather than what is known.

Boano Monarch and Silver Pigeon - the monarch is a relatively common endemic found on a small island off the coast of Seram. As Alan implied, you could go and see it next week if you wanted. Same for the Pigeon. What would make them more worthy of your list than e.g. Damar Flycatcher or Tanahjampea Monarch which are much more of a pain in the arse to see?
 
From personal experience, I think in Asia, the only ones that should remain on the list are the following

Hi James,
What would be your strategy to see Crested Argus? I think this bird will really make a birder work for it :)

Re: Blue-Wattled Bulbul, Vaurie's Nightjar, Red Sea Swallow (and that Nechisar nightjar) - somebody should really make DNA test to check they are real species.
 
Boano Monarch and Silver Pigeon - the monarch is a relatively common endemic found on a small island off the coast of Seram. As Alan implied, you could go and see it next week if you wanted. Same for the Pigeon. What would make them more worthy of your list than e.g. Damar Flycatcher or Tanahjampea Monarch which are much more of a pain in the arse to see?

Of course both of these are now very easy on Birdtour Asia's Banda Sea cruise, led by Mr Eaton - getting a space on the trip is probably the hardest part - it gets booked up years in advance! There is a new boat as well - I heard the last one hasn't moved very far since we sank it last year ;)

cheers, alan
 
Of course both of these are now very easy on Birdtour Asia's Banda Sea cruise, led by Mr Eaton - getting a space on the trip is probably the hardest part - it gets booked up years in advance! There is a new boat as well - I heard the last one hasn't moved very far since we sank it last year ;)

cheers, alan

Perhaps I should have been a little less specific, and said pain in the walletal area! :eek!:

For me, Wetar Ground Dove is the real holy grail in that neck of the woods.
 
Of course both of these are now very easy on Birdtour Asia's Banda Sea cruise, led by Mr Eaton - getting a space on the trip is probably the hardest part - it gets booked up years in advance! There is a new boat as well - I heard the last one hasn't moved very far since we sank it last year ;)

cheers, alan

I believe it's 200m lower than when you last saw it, Al - I'll be PASSING by there in a couple of months so I'll send you a photo.
Wetar Ground Dove is absolutely awesome, every time I see it I still get such an adrenaline rush.
 
Hi James,
What would be your strategy to see Crested Argus? I think this bird will really make a birder work for it :)

Re: Blue-Wattled Bulbul, Vaurie's Nightjar, Red Sea Swallow (and that Nechisar nightjar) - somebody should really make DNA test to check they are real species.

Hmm. First issue is that it should be split into two species. The Indochinese birds have undergone a catastrophic decline and, more-or-less, disappeared from all relative accessible places. This is one bird I seriously doubt I will ever see.

The Malaysian birds just require time (and a decent sound recording, which I haven't got as there are none of this taxon in captivity). Getting to the areas they occur in is not so difficult - it's a two day walk, then just a case of slogging it out with camping and some very careful scanning and stalking, so perhaps 7-10 days solely for this bird would bear fruits.
Funnily enough, earlier in the summer I was invited to a site (within a logging concession) with lots of camera trap records in the hope of developing access for birders to see the species, with marking out trails and potentially putting hides by dancing grounds but it didn't quite work out and requires substantial investment to get the project off the ground, which it still might.

There is no doubt about Vaurie's Nightjar being a valid species, in my mind, see Leader, P. J. (2009) Is Vaurie's Nightjar Caprimulgus centralasicus a valid species? BirdingASIA 11: 47-50.

James
 
How about South Island Kokako?

surely extinct? Even if not officially declared as such, there can be no hope for this species. I would say the same for all of the CR(PE) Hawaiian endemics. There are no Holy Grails left there ... although the Parrotbill can be frustrating elusive at times..

cheers, alan
 
If Kakapo could be considered a holy grail, than certainly Laysan and Nihoa Finch and Millerbird would probably warrant that conclusion. Yeah...I don't think they are difficult to get IF you can get to the islands they inhabit, but they are remote and restricted access...so effectively off limits for most birders.

Probably the hardest breeding birds in the ABA now.
 
If Kakapo could be considered a holy grail, than certainly Laysan and Nihoa Finch and Millerbird would probably warrant that conclusion. Yeah...I don't think they are difficult to get IF you can get to the islands they inhabit, but they are remote and restricted access...so effectively off limits for most birders.

Probably the hardest breeding birds in the ABA now.

Good points Morgan - I'd forgotten about those exceptionally hard to reach birds - surely some keen ABA listers will now make the effort? Offshore observations from Zodiacs? Possible?

cheers, alan
 
Thanks for the info on Crested Argus(es), James!

I hope these birds will benefit from the current trend of feeding everything for Chinese photographers and breeding everything in captivity.
 
Sorry, have to disagree with some of your comments. First of all, if your definition of a holy grail bird is that it might be extinct, then few of the birds on your list qualify. They aren't extinct: they just aren't seen very often.

I think my definition was a little misleading there, but I also believe we might have different definitions of a Holy Grail. I wasn't saying that a Holy Grail has to be extinct. I was saying that a Holy Grail is a species we know so little about, that it might be extinct in some cases.

Clearly Silvery Pigeon and Black-chinned Monarch don't qualify anymore as 'Real Holy Grails', but I'll transfer them to the 'former Holy Grails'.

I'll look into Brown-banded Rail and what category it belongs to. As far as Himalayan Quail goes I think James Eaton's comment contradicts your views and Pink-headed Duck could hide somewhere in the swamps if Bangladesh that are impossible to access due to political reasons. I don't think it qualifies as almost certainly extinct like e.g. Bachman's Warbler as the area it might still occur is underwatched (in contrast to the US).

However I have never been to South-east Asia (like so many other parts of this world) and certainly appreciate your input.
Pretty much all of my knowledge comes from HBW Alive and little bits of information I have snapped over the last years.

However the fact that some of the very first species that were mentioned to be missing from my list were Bachman's Warbler, Slender-billed Curlew and Ivory-billed Woodpecker supports me in my approach of leaving such species on the Holy Grail list. We might get another Forest Owlet or Madagascar Pochard here too
 
And as far as Kakapo, Millerbird and those others go I don't think they qualify as Holy Grail. They aren't very mysterious, enigmatic species. You know where and how to find them. There's no rediscovery story here to be told, which is what I was aiming for with this thread...
 
Fair enough on the Holy Grail classification, although I suspect many of the birds currently listed as "holy grails" are less "we don't know if they are around still or where to find them" as species that are known to live in remote areas that are equally hard to access.

For instance, I don't get an impression that Banggai crow was ever really thought of as a "lost bird", it was just not seen because of access issues. I think ornithologists expected to find them once they went back to the area. Sadly, my knowledge of rare birds outside of a few familiar locations I've read up and birded is pretty limited, so its hard for me to evaluate many of those birds on the list.

Would New Zealand Storm Petrel count as a former Holy Grail? it's pretty regularly seen, but I remember when pelagics first start encountering them how much of an amazing big deal they were.
 
Warning! This thread is more than 7 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top