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Scottish Independence (2 Viewers)

Birdspotter said:
This referendum is not about Salmond but rather it is a movement under several umbrellas's that has a clear understanding on were Scotland future lies!
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That's a lot of umbrellas!

Capercaillie71 said:
This mention of red grouse reminded me that land reform is one topic that hasn't been particularly prominent in the independence debate.
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I wonder why?

Mayo Corncrake said:
Could he be any worse than that David Cameron?
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Yes. Cameron is sensible enough to get others to do the dirty work e.g. Robert Benson.

Sancho said:
I have a solution that might keep everyone happy. The Uk lets the Scots go, but takes us back?;)
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Hmm, I've been enjoying Scottish beers from Williams Brothers, Harviestoun, Windswept & BrewDog recently. What does Ireland have to offer? Not that I have the casting vote of course.
 
Birdspotter said:
Salmond will become the head honcho if the country votes Yes, but he will only stay there if the people decide he has done a good job and by voting him in for a second term...that is something we can't do regarding the current Tory Gov.
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I fully expect the SNP to form the first government after the first election (if it's a Yes vote), but I do think Salmond will step aside and Sturgeon will become the new SNP leader, and hence the first First (Prime?) Minister of Scotland.
 
If it's a no vote as I suspect/fear, I think the biggest loser politically will be the labour party. They have been very naive in their dealings with the Tories over the whole referendum and to my mind have stepped into a trap. They have already apparently lost a lot of their traditional support in Scotland by effectively fronting a Tory-funded campaign and standing shoulder to shoulder with the Tories. By proposing this vow between the three parties to deliver significant further devolution they now face two possible outcomes with a no vote, if a Tory-led government continues after the next general election:

1) The further devolution proposals fall apart because of Tory backbench opposition at Westminster, for which labour will take the hit in Scotland (Most Tory voters here probably don't really want further devolution anyway)

2) Further devolution is granted but on the condition that Scottish MPs are prevented from voting on English matters (fair enough in my view), which will cause labour all sorts of difficulties if it then won a narrow majority across the UK at a subsequent election.

Of course, labour could try to win the next general election and implement further devolution without also preventing Scottish MPs from voting on English matters, but I can't see that being a vote-winner south of the border. I also suspect the Tories may attempt to outflank them by offering Scotland a better devolution offer than labour (already some evidence of this in the proposals put forward).
 
Capercaillie71 said:
1) The further devolution proposals fall apart because of Tory backbench opposition at Westminster, for which labour will take the hit in Scotland (Most Tory voters here probably don't really want further devolution anyway)
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Well those devo-max proposals are ill-defined, have never been subjected to any scrutiny and haven't been voted on by the UK parliament so it is clearly a desperate move from our triumvirate of clowns posing as party leaders. I suspect any extended powers will be voted down without some other devolved powers to the Wales and England. In the event of a "No", I think Scotland could end up with a worse settlement - a lot more English and Welsh voters (and probably MPs!) have now heard of the Barnett formula.

I'n thinking of heading up for the Snowy Owl at the weekend - it could be an international twitch. It looking like a hard bird in future for those rUK / rGB / English listers!

cheers, alan
 
JTweedie said:
I fully expect the SNP to form the first government after the first election (if it's a Yes vote), but I do think Salmond will step aside and Sturgeon will become the new SNP leader, and hence the first First (Prime?) Minister of Scotland.
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The prime minister would likely be called tòiseach.
 
Mayo Corncrake said:
The prime minister would likely be called tòiseach.
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Hmm, not too sure about that. Gaelic/Gaidhlig isn't all that common-place in Scotland outside of the Western Isles (although you do see bilingual signs in buildings, esp. where there's a Scottish Government dept), so I doubt they'd go for something that doesn't represent or say anything to the majority of people.
 
There's a lot of talk in this thread about how the split could affect birders' lists from the rUK, but if that's the case, then there's also likely to be Scottish birders affected too - birds like the nightingale or the Dartford warbler or the cirl bunting are almost exclusively southern birds, so they'd disappear off our "British" lists if this was to be split.
 
JTweedie said:
There's a lot of talk in this thread about how the split could affect birders' lists from the rUK, but if that's the case, then there's also likely to be Scottish birders affected too - birds like the nightingale or the Dartford warbler or the cirl bunting are almost exclusively southern birds, so they'd disappear off our "British" lists if this was to be split.
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I think Nightingales are fairly frequent in Scotland on migration, but the other two must be more difficult.

John
 
JTweedie said:
Hmm, not too sure about that. Gaelic/Gaidhlig isn't all that common-place in Scotland outside of the Western Isles (although you do see bilingual signs in buildings, esp. where there's a Scottish Government dept), so I doubt they'd go for something that doesn't represent or say anything to the majority of people.
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How about Firrrst Minister?

John
 
The politicians have spoken, but now it is the people of Scotland who are doing the talking today the length and breadth of the country, whatever the result I am so proud of my country today on whatever path they choose!

But how did we get here!? How can a country with a shared 300 year history suddenly decide enough is enough!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEF1lZobHkA

Personally myself I think Cameron thought the No Campaign was going to waltz this referendum and in his arrogance vetoed the Devo Max question being put onto the ballot paper..a question that may or may not have saved the Union.
I for one would have voted for that but Cameron played a poker hand that has backfired on him because by not giving Scots the choice of Devo Max it only left myself and thousands of others with one choice and that was YES.
This was immediately apparent after the Ugov poll of two weekend's ago when all three party leaders down south along with their supporters arrived by the train load to start offering us extra powers...something that Cameron had already vetoed in the first place remember.
Then came along the orchestrated threats, something the Scottish people are not shy of standing up to!

I also think their campaign has been rather flat, looking at the their rallies..where were the Scottish flags and such! I could only see red and yellow NO placards looking very much like a labour political rally. Look at the video that I linked to see what I mean regarding the YES campaign.
Also Darling was a wimp regarding the TV debates alongside Salmond...so much so towards the end of the campaign he disappeared and suddenly Paw Broon was on our televisions fronting it...a shambles in my mind!

Anyway that's my pennies worth but whatever the outcome peace and love to all.
 
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JTweedie said:
I was thinking more in general - they're not birds commonly found esp. in season.
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Fair enough but the reverse would be Dotterel, which are straightforward enough in England on migration, but don't breed. They still aren't difficult if you really want them.

Perhaps its the difference between being a patch birder and a travelling one - I am in the latter category and I tend to forget how many people aren't!

Cheers

John
 
Farnboro John said:
Fair enough but the reverse would be Dotterel, which are straightforward enough in England on migration, but don't breed. They still aren't difficult if you really want them.

Perhaps its the difference between being a patch birder and a travelling one - I am in the latter category and I tend to forget how many people aren't!

Cheers

John
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I don't consider myself to be a twitcher, but I will travel to what are almost guaranteed good sites for x species. Don't have loads of money or free time (or a car, although I can drive), so my list progresses rather slowly!
 
JTweedie said:
There's a lot of talk in this thread about how the split could affect birders' lists from the rUK, but if that's the case, then there's also likely to be Scottish birders affected too - birds like the nightingale or the Dartford warbler or the cirl bunting are almost exclusively southern birds, so they'd disappear off our "British" lists if this was to be split.
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Whatever happens, I will just carry on with my "British" list which covers Scotland, Wales and England. Everything else is "abroad" (Isle of Man, NI, Channel Islands) and I have never had any interest in a Scottish or English list.

As a friend has said many times "It's your list, do what you want".
 
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