Falcon ID please (1 Viewer)

Hi guys,

I found 2 falcons in the last hour just outside Erlangen, Germany. Having been here a few months, I have never seen a falco here yet besides Hobby and Kestrel. The first bird appears to be a juv and the second only a hundred metres from the first appears to be adult?
The pics aren't great but with the sky as a backdrop, it's not easy.
My own guess is Lanner....any suggestions welcome.
No straps were visible at any time and the bird in flight is the juv.
The juv bird was uniform chocolate brown on upperparts with light edges to the feathering. The upper breast was heavily spotted and seemed to graduate into vertical streaks as they descended.The mask appeared brown rather than black and was "smudgy" rather than clear...even on the adult.
The juv bird called repeatedly.

The adult was dark grey on the upperparts with noticable darker horizontal vermiculations. The mask was also apparent but not well defined as in peregrine. The crown was noticeably pale.
The breast was mostly white with sparse fine spotting near the centre. Some barring was apparent just under the shoulder of the closed wing along the side of the breast.

My own guess is Lanner but not sure. Any suggestions welcome and if it is a Lanner, how likely is it to be "wild"? I presume this would be an interesting German record??

Waiting with baited breath.

regards,

Hi Mícheál,
I have no real experience with medium/large falcons(have seen loads of Peregrines and one Gyr),but I do know that these birds do not seem to be Pergrines,and can't be Sakers.If they are a 'pure' species,then they would surely have to be Lanner,but can hybrids/back-crosses be ruled out with certainty?There was a good article on erlangeri Lanner in Birding World by Andrea Corso a few years ago:I'll check this out,unless anyone out there has the relevant article to hand?Think it was in the May 2000 issue?
Harry

The bird in flight certainly looks structurally like Lanner

Jane Turner said:

The bird in flight certainly looks structurally like Lanner

Click to expand...

The perching bird has some plumage characteristics of a peregrine yet the silhouette is almost kite-like. Does anyone think this infers that the bird is a hybrid? Obviously not a kite-falcon hybrid but the unusual silhouette could suggest some kind of falcon hybrid and Jane thinks the bird is little like a lanner...?

Just back from the site where I had them and no prizes for guessing....they had gone.
No sign of any falcons in the area for about an hour.
Regarding Kite similarities, there were none in the field.
The juv bird seemed a little smaller than a typical peregrine...maybe a male Lanner or hybrid? The adult when I first saw it, I immediately took it for a peregrine as it was marginally larger, however, peregrine was ruled out as soon as i got closer.

Just one point of note. Only the juv. flew while i was there. It was typically "Falcon-like" but in comparison to Peregrine which I have seen many, the bird seemed more barrel-chested and appeared to have a longer tail...at least that's what struck me immediately. However, when stationery, the juv. did appear rather sleek.

Being that the closest lanners are to Germany is Italy and they appear to be pretty rare in their pure form, I guess it is most likely to be a hybrid? However, there were two birds together in close proximity and I'm keeping my fingers crossed

Perhaps if Joern is about, he may have some input regarding Lanner types in Germany. Please feel free to comment further...surprising how quiet this thread is!!

regards,

Lanner for me too. They frequently feature on falconers' escapes lists.

Michael

Lanner for me, too.

Out of current breeding range, perhaps, but not historical.....?

Andy.

Thanks for your comments guys.
No sign of the falcons since but I guess Lanners on pylons in Germany could really only be escapes.....if they even are pure Lanners that is.
Best regards,