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Old Friday 17th February 2012, 02:28   #101
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Steve,

I think you can depend on the markings. It will almost certainly say "multi-coated" on the binocular if there are any multi-coated surfaces at all. Of course, there won't be any multi-coating on any of these made before the mid to late 1980's. What you have to worry about in these old binoculars is no coating at all on the interior surfaces. You can be sure if they are marked "coated" that some, probably most, surfaces are uncoated.

Here's what the "Japanese Export Inspection Standard for Prism Binoculars" required the coating marks on binoculars of this vintage to mean, from J.W. Seyfied "Choosing, Using & Repairing Binoculars", p. 147:

"1) In the case of binoculars marked COATED, at least the inside or outside surface of the objective or the inside or outside surface of the eyepiece shall be subjected to anti-reflective treatment. 2) In the case of binoculars marked FULLY COATED, all air-to-glass surfaces of all lenses or prisms shall be subjected to anti-reflective treatment."

Henry
Thanks for the information Henry. I ordered that book too.

I called Bushnell the other day and asked about some things, and on eBay were a probably a 1980's vintage Explorer, and another Banner 7x35 11* binoculars that both looked new. They both should have been, and probably were multi coated, but the excellent pictures did not indicate the fact, or show any serial numbers the tech could use. The Bushnell catalogs said they were Bak-4 and Multi coated. The Bushnell tech got online and looked at the binoculars while we were on the phone. I should have bought one, but both were the "Insta-Focus" rocker arm arrangement which I really don't like all that much, and I had bids on other stuff right then.

But I usually ask the seller what it says about coatings if I am interested and they have unclear pictures. I try to stay with fully coated. So far none I have bid on have indicated multi coated, but do clearly indicate coated or fully coated. The last one I bought shows Bak-4 but I can't see too much more in the picture.
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Old Friday 17th February 2012, 02:36   #102
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Interesting point. I have followed a few discussions over at Cloudy Nights where guys have taken these vintage porros apart and fully recoated all the optical surfaces. I think one guy owned an optical shop. They said the resulting binocular was remarkable and equal to any alpha available today. So the only thing lacking on these old porro's was the technology of todays improved coatings really. They had great basic simple porro-prism optics with good basic eyepeices and huge prisms. That would be an interesting project but probably expensive unless you had some connections. They recoat big vintage refractor telescopes all the time but I am sure it is expensive but well worth it on a $200K telescope.
Very interesting input.
If the ability to recoat a 6" refractor is affordable, surely a little set of binocs should be a snap.
Presumably the issues of maintaining phase across prism interfaces are unique to roof prism binoculars and don't apply to porros.
Now all we need is a solution that adds eye relief and the binoculars for the 21rst century will be a reality.
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Old Friday 17th February 2012, 02:47   #103
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Very interesting input.
If the ability to recoat a 6" refractor is affordable, surely a little set of binocs should be a snap.
Presumably the issues of maintaining phase across prism interfaces are unique to roof prism binoculars and don't apply to porros.
Now all we need is a solution that adds eye relief and the binoculars for the 21rst century will be a reality.
To increase the ER would involve a more complicated EP. It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to accomplish.Take a vintage porro design update the coatings and upgrade the EP's and you have got your 600 foot FOV EDG.
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Old Friday 17th February 2012, 03:20   #104
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Thanks for the information Henry. I ordered that book too.

I called Bushnell the other day and asked about some things, and on eBay were a probably a 1980's vintage Explorer, and another Banner 7x35 11* binoculars that both looked new. They both should have been, and probably were multi coated, but the excellent pictures did not indicate the fact, or show any serial numbers the tech could use. The Bushnell catalogs said they were Bak-4 and Multi coated. The Bushnell tech got online and looked at the binoculars while we were on the phone. I should have bought one, but both were the "Insta-Focus" rocker arm arrangement which I really don't like all that much, and I had bids on other stuff right then.
Steve,

I see a Banner and an Explorer 7x35 WA on ebay now. I would say neither is multi-coated. The Banner says "fully coated", meaning no multi-coating for sure. The Explorer is unmarked as to coating, but the bright bluish reflections are clearly MgF and some reflections don't even look coated. Banners were cheap, probably never multi-coated. Explorers were only one step up from Banners. They might have had some multi-coating by the late 80's, but I doubt it. These were far from high end binoculars at the time. If in doubt look for green coatings. Just about every multi-coated Japanese binocular from the 80's and 90's will show green reflections. Single layer coatings are never green.

I'm afraid the book is pretty bad, poorly written with terrible illustrations, but you might get something out of it.

Henry
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Old Friday 17th February 2012, 04:52   #105
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Henry,

Thanks again. I held off on the order I decided I was going to PM you about that book before I bought it. Your response took care of that. I've been working, reasonably successfully, on fixing some issues with several of the binoculars I have gotten. I have half dozen in working order and two that are going to have to wait for another day, they are in the back end of the project drawer. So I was interested in any sort of repairing reference.

That paricular Explorer has been there forever. He has refused offers, but nobody has ever bid it at $95. The eBay search is about half used Bushnell's, so names like Banner, Sportview, Ensign, Falcon, etc are all over the place. Not much there really catches my eye, except for Rangemaster, Custom, and Featherlite, which are rather fewer and further between listings.

The Explorer I was looking at sold for $30 plus shipping, looked essentially new. It had rather typical Bushnell lettering on the prism plates, and tint couldn't be told from those pictures, and nothing about either Bak-4 or MC. Bushnell catalogs had the last Explorer's in 1985 listed MSRP for $209 and the Banners for $179. Catalog literature (according to the tech) said Bak-4 and multi coatings. He had no idea when it started, or for that matter what year the ones pictured were made. I took that to mean those were not Bak-4 or MC and decided passing was the thing to do.
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Old Friday 17th February 2012, 05:16   #106
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Henry,

Thanks again. I held off on the order I decided I was going to PM you about that book before I bought it. Your response took care of that. I've been working, reasonably successfully, on fixing some issues with several of the binoculars I have gotten. I have half dozen in working order and two that are going to have to wait for another day, they are in the back end of the project drawer. So I was interested in any sort of repairing reference.

That paricular Explorer has been there forever. He has refused offers, but nobody has ever bid it at $95. The eBay search is about half used Bushnell's, so names like Banner, Sportview, Ensign, Falcon, etc are all over the place. Not much there really catches my eye, except for Rangemaster, Custom, and Featherlite, which are rather fewer and further between listings.

The Explorer I was looking at sold for $30 plus shipping, looked essentially new. It had rather typical Bushnell lettering on the prism plates, and tint couldn't be told from those pictures, and nothing about either Bak-4 or MC. Bushnell catalogs had the last Explorer's in 1985 listed MSRP for $209 and the Banners for $179. Catalog literature (according to the tech) said Bak-4 and multi coatings. He had no idea when it started, or for that matter what year the ones pictured were made. I took that to mean those were not Bak-4 or MC and decided passing was the thing to do.
What kind of coatings would you guess these Taylors I bought have? They look like MgF don't they. They are a bright bluish color.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/180818625988...84.m1439.l2649

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Old Friday 17th February 2012, 05:40   #107
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Henry,

Thanks again. I held off on the order I decided I was going to PM you about that book before I bought it. Your response took care of that. I've been working, reasonably successfully, on fixing some issues with several of the binoculars I have gotten. I have half dozen in working order and two that are going to have to wait for another day, they are in the back end of the project drawer. So I was interested in any sort of repairing reference.

That paricular Explorer has been there forever. He has refused offers, but nobody has ever bid it at $95. The eBay search is about half used Bushnell's, so names like Banner, Sportview, Ensign, Falcon, etc are all over the place. Not much there really catches my eye, except for Rangemaster, Custom, and Featherlite, which are rather fewer and further between listings.

The Explorer I was looking at sold for $30 plus shipping, looked essentially new. It had rather typical Bushnell lettering on the prism plates, and tint couldn't be told from those pictures, and nothing about either Bak-4 or MC. Bushnell catalogs had the last Explorer's in 1985 listed MSRP for $209 and the Banners for $179. Catalog literature (according to the tech) said Bak-4 and multi coatings. He had no idea when it started, or for that matter what year the ones pictured were made. I took that to mean those were not Bak-4 or MC and decided passing was the thing to do.
Here is an interesting article by the Weatherman on restoring old scopes and binoculars. Kind of interesting.

Just a note to everybody "Howard Stern" has left the building so I am not going to be as argumentative or as caustic in my threads and I will not try to stir up as much negativity from now on. So those of you that have put me on your "Ignore List" can give me a second chance because I am changing my attitude and I will try to be a little less opinionated in my views towards binoculars and a little more helpful and understanding in all of my posts. Sorry about all the name calling in the past but that is changing from this point on. This is especially directed towards Henry, Brock and ND Hunter who I really value their opinions and are major contributors to this forum.

http://www.weatherman.com/oldscope.htm

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Old Friday 17th February 2012, 06:14   #108
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Here is an interesting article by the Weatherman on restoring old scopes and binoculars. Kind of interesting.

http://www.weatherman.com/oldscope.htm
Here is a description of lens coating classifications:
Coated Lenses

Coated lenses are at the lowest end of the binocular spectrum. Coated lenses have one layer of non-reflective coating. This small amount of coating provides for the poorest image quality regarding viewing distant objects through binoculars.

Fully Coated Lenses

Fully coated lenses are the next step up in the spectrum and provide a higher image quality to the viewer. When binoculars are rated with fully coated lenses, it means that all air to glass surfaces of the lenses have been coated with one layer of non-reflective coating.

Multicoated Lenses

As the name indicates, multicoated lenses have multiple coatings on them. At least 15 layers of non-reflective material are applied. The downside with this rating is that to receive the rating the binoculars need only have one lens coated with the multiple layers. This will provide exceptional image quality and justifies the higher cost.

Fully Multicoated Lenses

Fully multicoated lenses are the pinnacle of binocular lens ratings and therefore cost more than the less coated varieties. They do, however, provide the best image quality possible. To receive a fully multicoated lens rating, the binoculars must have every air to glass surface coated with a minimum of 15 layers of non-reflective coating.
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Old Friday 17th February 2012, 13:45   #109
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Here is an interesting article by the Weatherman on restoring old scopes and binoculars. Kind of interesting.

Just a note to everybody "Howard Stern" has left the building so I am not going to be as argumentative or as caustic in my threads and I will not try to stir up as much negativity from now on. So those of you that have put me on your "Ignore List" can give me a second chance because I am changing my attitude and I will try to be a little less opinionated in my views towards binoculars and a little more helpful and understanding in all of my posts. Sorry about all the name calling in the past but that is changing from this point on. This is especially directed towards Henry, Brock and ND Hunter who I really value their opinions and are major contributors to this forum.

http://www.weatherman.com/oldscope.htm
Dennis,

I cannot speak for the others but I would think your post above is a good start. The issue is going to be how long you can continue to not be "Howard Stern".
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Old Friday 17th February 2012, 14:00   #110
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Dennis

The only reason I have responded, multiple times, here in this thread of yours is because you have seemed to have been acting like an adult. I hope Howard can stay gone. He added nothing. Welcome back. Thanks for the link too.

The picture on your Taylor does not show anything about them, which sadly is kind of typical on eBay binocular sales. So I think you'll have to see if it says coated or Fully coated on one of the prism housings. He does ofer a rather untypical, quite good technical description too. However, he says nothing about the coatings. If he's right about the 1960's age, and from the blue tint, probably single coated MgF.

When you comment on them, add reference to the J-B number. I was curious about the reference he made to Swift in his display.
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Old Friday 17th February 2012, 20:03   #111
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Steve

When I was emailing the seller about 10 days ago he said the Taylors were made by Katsuma who had also made some binos for Swift. He compared the binos to older Zephyr's but said the coating was better, however, they are only marked "coated".

Tom
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Old Saturday 18th February 2012, 00:39   #112
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Steve

When I was emailing the seller about 10 days ago he said the Taylors were made by Katsuma who had also made some binos for Swift. He compared the binos to older Zephyr's but said the coating was better, however, they are only marked "coated".

Tom
Yes, I asked the seller about the coatings on the Taylor's and this was his response. He is quite knowledgeable on vintage binoculars. I think I will ask him for his list of recommended vintage binoculars.

"Probably just coated. The front objectives have a bluish look to them.

From what I understand. Blue coatings are generally representative of single layers that are "too thin." Amber coatings represent "too thick" of a layer.

Green and Purplish Magenta Coatings represent just right thickness and usually multicoats at least on the outer lens surfaces or lenses.

Blue reflective coatings are pretty common and can be quite good, like on the B&L Zephyr's. As are Amber reflective, sometimes even touted for their amber lenses, I think to be found on some vintage Swift binoculars (among others).

If you would like a list of better vintage Japanese binoculars, let me know. You can even find good off name brand vintage Japanese stuff sometimes, but that is more of a gamble.

Taylor Mark II are pretty solid across the board. Ive had 7x35 7.5 degree, 7x35 11 Deg., 7x50 7.1 Deg, and still have 9x35 7.5 Degree. I like the higher power and wide AFOV of the 9x35. Never was too much of a fan of the 7x50 configuration in general, but a solid binocular. The 7.5 Deg. 7x35 that I just sold as well is sharp and very contrasty, among the best 7x35 standard FOV that Ive looked through, but I like the higher power and wider AFOV of the 9x35. In comparison the contrast is lower on the 7x35 Wide Angles, but still high build quality....I think the coatings are lacking on this model in the eyepiece lenses....and anything over 10 Degrees Ive come to the conclusion has optical compromises that just arent worth it for the extra Degree FOV....IMO. This is a better 11 Degree Wide Angle binocular though. The Kowas I just sold had 10 Degrees and beautiful Multicoated lenses are about the finest Wide Angle 7x35 Ive ever owned or looked through (though Ive had other vintage Kowas that were dissappointing)...and my friend has some Tasco 1xx series 7x35 Wide Angle binos that are very good too."

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Old Saturday 18th February 2012, 02:16   #113
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That guy's eBay name is orbitaljump. There is a relatively frequent poster here with the same moniker. Too much of a coincidence I think. Gotta be the same guy.

I agree with him to a point, but I think 11* is the best overall EWA rather than 10*. Most of the big prism EWA models start at 11*.

I got an 11.8* 620' number by Montgomery Wards today, nice binocular.
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Old Saturday 18th February 2012, 02:36   #114
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That guy's eBay name is orbitaljump. There is a relatively frequent poster here with the same moniker. Too much of a coincidence I think. Gotta be the same guy.

I agree with him to a point, but I think 11* is the best overall EWA rather than 10*. Most of the big prism EWA models start at 11*.

I got an 11.8* 620' number by Montgomery Wards today, nice binocular.
How much did you have to give for that one? That is a REALLY wide FOV. Almost 12 degrees.
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Old Saturday 18th February 2012, 03:06   #115
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Dennis,

I paid $29.99 shipping included. There is some dust in the nooks and crannies, the JTII sticker is about worn off, but other than that it looks brand new, glass is perfect, and it functions flawlessly. Fully coated, BAK-4 prisms. Might be an ideal woodland binocular with that wide field. It is the quickest, smoothest, fastest on the focus porro I have ever had in my hand. One half turn from close focus of 10' to infinity. Not quite one half turn past infinity. Probably the fastest focusing binocular I have ever used. I have to admit the focus took me a bit by surprise.

I don't think I'll be looking for much with a wider field, unless I come on a buy it now steal like this one.
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Old Saturday 18th February 2012, 03:18   #116
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Dennis,

I paid $29.99 shipping included. There is some dust in the nooks and crannies, the JTII sticker is about worn off, but other than that it looks brand new, glass is perfect, and it functions flawlessly. Fully coated, BAK-4 prisms. Might be an ideal woodland binocular with that wide field. It is the quickest, smoothest, fastest on the focus porro I have ever had in my hand. One half turn from close focus of 10' to infinity. Not quite one half turn past infinity. Probably the fastest focusing binocular I have ever used. I have to admit the focus took me a bit by surprise.

I don't think I'll be looking for much with a wider field, unless I come on a buy it now steal like this one.
Wow. Some these vintage porros have to be the best bargains around if you know what you are looking for. That means you paid about $15.00 for the binoculars. Pretty good buy.
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Old Saturday 18th February 2012, 03:27   #117
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That guy's eBay name is orbitaljump. There is a relatively frequent poster here with the same moniker. Too much of a coincidence I think. Gotta be the same guy.

I agree with him to a point, but I think 11* is the best overall EWA rather than 10*. Most of the big prism EWA models start at 11*.

I got an 11.8* 620' number by Montgomery Wards today, nice binocular.
I've just a few of the EWA binos but by far the best is a Montgomery Ward 7x35. The specs are 11.5* 604' and mine has a pretty fast focus also. Just curious if yours was made by the same manufacturer as mine. The JB number on mine is 191.

Steve
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Old Saturday 18th February 2012, 04:06   #118
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I've just a few of the EWA binos but by far the best is a Montgomery Ward 7x35. The specs are 11.5* 604' and mine has a pretty fast focus also. Just curious if yours was made by the same manufacturer as mine. The JB number on mine is 191.

Steve
That was the first thing I looked for, but there is none. This is the first Wards binocular I have seen and I was curious about that. I really like the big beefy "double handful" sort of experience from the Large Prism 7x35. Oh, and by the way this one is marked 7x,35mm, with the comma which is usually absent. No model number either.
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Old Saturday 18th February 2012, 05:34   #119
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Oculars on the monkey ward about 22mm, plastic prism covers & super wide angle ultra violet coating on the plastic endcaps?

Art. No. 67-7037

What's on the left prism cover?
---------------
Here ya go a Tasco zoom, so you can really appreciate optics & wide angle, along w/578' FOV Sears combo platter.

Perchance the gent has something else in the bin allowing you to supersize the order.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Tasc...item4cfe98bee7

As for Howard Stern's statement concerning ignore lists I'd like to second that to anyone that's ignoring me.

Jumpin' Jehoshaphat, wait a gall durned second! If'n they're ignoring me they can't read this.

Never mind.

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Old Saturday 18th February 2012, 13:17   #120
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Oculars on the monkey ward about 22mm, plastic prism covers & super wide angle ultra violet coating on the plastic endcaps?

Art. No. 67-7037

What's on the left prism cover?
---------------
Here ya go a Tasco zoom, so you can really appreciate optics & wide angle, along w/578' FOV Sears combo platter.

Perchance the gent has something else in the bin allowing you to supersize the order.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Tasc...item4cfe98bee7

As for Howard Stern's statement concerning ignore lists I'd like to second that to anyone that's ignoring me.

Jumpin' Jehoshaphat, wait a gall durned second! If'n they're ignoring me they can't read this.

Never mind.
That Tasco is interesting. A zoom even. HaHa! Both for $15.00. Here are some real VINTAGE Tasco's. I didn't know Tasco has been making binoculars for that long.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-Tasc...D1003%26rk%3D2

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Old Saturday 18th February 2012, 15:39   #121
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Well, I feel as if I'm in Vegas w/flashing marquee. Amazing that Tasco found the time to sub out work in gay Paris. Who'd 'ave thunkit?

Genghis Kahn was probably swappin' sake, short grain rice & muskox jerky for glass, champagne & can-can dancers to break the monotony betwixt pillaging from the thunderous herd & dukin' it out w/cavalier christians crusadin' around eastern Europe.

ETA: Here's a case w/shoulder strap fitting for the storied the Tasco:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antonio-Scep...item4cfe77da8d

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Old Saturday 18th February 2012, 17:59   #122
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Oculars on the monkey ward about 22mm, plastic prism covers & super wide angle ultra violet coating on the plastic endcaps?

Art. No. 67-7037

What's on the left prism cover?
---------------
Here ya go a Tasco zoom, so you can really appreciate optics & wide angle, along w/578' FOV Sears combo platter.

Perchance the gent has something else in the bin allowing you to supersize the order.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Tasc...item4cfe98bee7

As for Howard Stern's statement concerning ignore lists I'd like to second that to anyone that's ignoring me.

Jumpin' Jehoshaphat, wait a gall durned second! If'n they're ignoring me they can't read this.

Never mind.
The prism covers may well be plastic, I have not looked closely yet. The objectives sit in a screw out of the solid metal body very plastic affair. Ditto on the endcap lettering.

These oculars are 23.2 mm. The number is 67-7038.

Left prism plate reads
Montgomery Wards
Fully Coated
BAK-4 Prisms
Precision Optics

I am in the process of posting about some of these vintage binoculars, so further dsacription will wait.

The Sears in the Tasco Zoom combo add are worth the bidding price by themselves.
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Old Saturday 18th February 2012, 19:19   #123
denco@comcast.n
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Originally Posted by Nixterdemus View Post
Well, I feel as if I'm in Vegas w/flashing marquee. Amazing that Tasco found the time to sub out work in gay Paris. Who'd 'ave thunkit?

Genghis Kahn was probably swappin' sake, short grain rice & muskox jerky for glass, champagne & can-can dancers to break the monotony betwixt pillaging from the thunderous herd & dukin' it out w/cavalier christians crusadin' around eastern Europe.

ETA: Here's a case w/shoulder strap fitting for the storied the Tasco:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antonio-Scep...item4cfe77da8d
That's a nice case but what would your fellow birders say about it?
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Old Saturday 18th February 2012, 20:26   #124
denco@comcast.n
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The prism covers may well be plastic, I have not looked closely yet. The objectives sit in a screw out of the solid metal body very plastic affair. Ditto on the endcap lettering.

These oculars are 23.2 mm. The number is 67-7038.

Left prism plate reads
Montgomery Wards
Fully Coated
BAK-4 Prisms
Precision Optics

I am in the process of posting about some of these vintage binoculars, so further dsacription will wait.

The Sears in the Tasco Zoom combo add are worth the bidding price by themselves.
Steve
What do you think of these.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Classic-Niko...item19cdc0cbf6
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Old Saturday 18th February 2012, 21:09   #125
Steve C
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They will go for over $100 for sure. You would be better off asking Frank or Henry. I have not seen one of these. I have an older Nikon Naturalist II, but I doubt comments would be comparable.

Frank probably has a bid in there somewhere too . Just checked, he does. This is not showing on my search and I have two searches with parameters that should have showed these.
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Last edited by Steve C : Saturday 18th February 2012 at 21:13.
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