Zeiss Factory Wetzlar (1 Viewer)

Recently found a video of telescopic sights production at the Zeiss Wetzlar factory. Visit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygtBaJ3n7u8.

Its an interesting video and features Zeiss UK's very own Mark Karn (Carl Zeiss Ltd Divisional Manager Consumer Optics Division).

There are some references to binocular production but it mainly focuses on rifle sights.

Interestingly at one point the narrator is in a goods inwards area sat on Schott boxes and discussing a 16 kg block of glass and in the background are loads of OHARA glass company boxes. Looks like Zeiss optics does not single source its glass from Schott but keeps them on their toes by buying from Ohara.

Lee

The nature of optical design and construction is that different companies manufacture glass with different properties which all combine to make the final product.

I remember many years ago being amazed to see boxes of Hoya glass being unloaded at Leica.

At the end of the day the best glass for each application is selected - whoever it is made by.

Troubador said:

Recently found a video of telescopic sights production at the Zeiss Wetzlar factory. Visit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygtBaJ3n7u8.

Its an interesting video and features Zeiss UK's very own Mark Karn (Carl Zeiss Ltd Divisional Manager Consumer Optics Division).

There are some references to binocular production but it mainly focuses on rifle sights.

Interestingly at one point the narrator is in a goods inwards area sat on Schott boxes and discussing a 16 kg block of glass and in the background are loads of OHARA glass company boxes. Looks like Zeiss optics does not single source its glass from Schott but keeps them on their toes by buying from Ohara.

Lee

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I heard the ED glass used on conquest HD is also used by Nikon and other binocular brands. Globalization.

xu42 said:

I heard the ED glass used on conquest HD is also used by Nikon and other binocular brands. Globalization.

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Interesting...I thought the Conquest was supposed to be using an exclusive, brand new, never before used glass.

motts said:

Interesting...I thought the Conquest was supposed to be using an exclusive, brand new, never before used glass.

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From the video and Gary's comments, apparently not!

And isn't it the Victory that's using the "exclusive, brand new, never before used glass" - the "HT" Schott glass, not the Conquest?

For all we know, only two "HT" lens elements in the HT are from Schott and the rest is from Ohara. Not that Ohara's glass in inferior, but no doubt, it is cheaper.

A couple years ago, I read an article online, not sure if it was on Zeiss' Website or elsewhere, and it claimed that one uncut Schott glass blank used to make the Zeiss optics elements for one bin cost more than the price of most entirely assembled bins sold.

In light of the newly revealed information above, I think that's very misleading. After advertising for years that Zeiss uses Schott glass, I suspect that most people assumed it exclusively used Schott glass in its bins, and that was one of the chief reasons for the uber hoch price tag.

Now we find out Zeiss is using Japanese glass. Not sure how the Euro is holding up against the yen, probably not well, so the Ohara glass probably ain't that cheap now either, but for years, Japan has made quality optics for less money than Germany and Austria.

I doubt if this is a new trend due to "globalization". It's not really "offshoring" to use Ohara glass, many optics companies have used it for decades. It's just that when a manufacturer advertizes that it uses expensive Schott glass and then you find out it's also using Ohara glass, and who knows how much of each, I'm sure it's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," I feel like we've been misled on purpose.

And now we find out that Leica has also been misleading us by using Hoya glass! Hoya! Oh, boya!

This reinforces my suspicion that German and Austrian optics are overpriced.

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Actually Germany companies have some problems getting Jap glass.
Germany has some controls on glass export and the Japanese responded in the same way. The Japanese also has some controls on ferrous material . I know people in Leica Singapore and they told me when they order Japanese glass they will order it from the States and not Japan even though it will be nearer and cheaper.

brocknroller said:

This reinforces my suspicion that German and Austrian optics are overpriced.

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Just as Nikon, which is right there at the same price level, whatever glass they use.

Apart from the recent HT-glass marketing, I can't remember Zeiss, Leica or anyone else ever having said anything about the supplier of the glass they use. I don't see where they "mislead" us. It's merely a common internet speculation (Zeiss own Schott, so they only use Schott glass) that has been proved wrong here.

Besides I couldn't care less what kind of supplier Zeiss, Leica, Swaro etc. use for sourcing the glass for the lenses, metal for the tubes, rubber for the armour and plastic for the logo. I suppose what they do is to find the best suitable for their design at the best price possible on the market.

Reading that Zeiss uses Ohara glass, my retina is burning, my eyeballs are severely irritated and birds look duller when looking through my Victories.

dalat said:

Just as Nikon, which is right there at the same price level, whatever glass they use.

Apart from the recent HT-glass marketing, I can't remember Zeiss, Leica or anyone else ever having said anything about the supplier of the glass they use. I don't see where they "mislead" us. It's merely a common internet speculation (Zeiss own Schott, so they only use Schott glass) that has been proved wrong here.

Besides I couldn't care less what kind of supplier Zeiss, Leica, Swaro etc. use for sourcing the glass for the lenses, metal for the tubes, rubber for the armour and plastic for the logo. I suppose what they do is to find the best suitable for their design at the best price possible on the market.

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I think DALAT has summed it up perfectly. And in many multi-national companies individual factories still have to bid competitively against both in-group and external competitors. So I see nothing wrong and much that is logical and good business-sense if Schott has to be competitive in a world-wide sense to win business at Zeiss.

Moreover being competitive does'nt just mean on price. In addition it means on specification, compliance with specs, absence of defects, availability of supply and no doubt a whole lot more than I can think about.

The worse thing from our bin-obsessed enthusiast perspective would be if Schott took Zeiss Sport Optics business for granted and if Zeiss Sport Optics couldn't be bothered to check out external suppliers of glasses.

Lee

Apart from the recent HT-glass marketing, I can't remember Zeiss, Leica or anyone else ever having said anything about the supplier of the glass they use.

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And now we find out that Leica has also been misleading us by using Hoya glass!

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I can specifically remember going to Birdfair a few years ago, and asking the guys at Leica and Zeiss what type of glass they use in there bin's. Both replied Schott glass, as it's the best ! Obviously things have changed in the last few years, but I think it is important what glass type is used in bino's. If I'm paying a premium price I want the best glass. I assumed that's Schott glass ?

they have been using a mixture of glasses for years
it is like looking into any electronic equipment; you will see samsung parts in Philips products .

ticl2184 said:

I can specifically remember going to Birdfair a few years ago, and asking the guys at Leica and Zeiss what type of glass they use in there bin's. Both replied Schott glass, as it's the best ! Obviously things have changed in the last few years, but I think it is important what glass type is used in bino's. If I'm paying a premium price I want the best glass. I assumed that's Schott glass ?

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I can't see (sorry!) what difference it makes knowing what make of glass is used in any binocular. I don't care if the ones I own use the bottoms of beer bottles if they provide the best view.

Stan

PS. They seem to work better if empty.

Stan

garymh said:

The new Conquest HDs are made in Germany.

The HD contains a newly developed optical glass. This is used exclusively in the HD.

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garymh said:

Obviously yes !!!!!

The Schott HT glass that we are using in the Victory HT binocular is a brand new innovation.

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We'd all like to have binoculars designed, built, and assembled 100% in Germany by 100% German made products. However, we'll never really know what exactly "Made in Germany" means in relation to where materials come from, where they are assembled, etc. At the end of the day, I suppose it really is the view that matters. However, when you're paying $2000+ for a pair of binos, you may want a little more reassurance than just what your eyes can offer you. Consumers want to know for sure that their product, in this case binoculars, were actually built in the best factories with best and most expensive quality parts, with best quality control.

It's my opinion that part of the prestige and price tag of buying a high end alpha bino needs to have those ingredients in the recipe in order to be worth their asking price. I think most people who would purchase high priced bins expect that. They're paying for those "intangible" bragging rights as well....at least they think they are.

dalat said:

Just as Nikon, which is right there at the same price level, whatever glass they use.

Apart from the recent HT-glass marketing, I can't remember Zeiss, Leica or anyone else ever having said anything about the supplier of the glass they use. I don't see where they "mislead" us. It's merely a common internet speculation (Zeiss own Schott, so they only use Schott glass) that has been proved wrong here.

Besides I couldn't care less what kind of supplier Zeiss, Leica, Swaro etc. use for sourcing the glass for the lenses, metal for the tubes, rubber for the armour and plastic for the logo. I suppose what they do is to find the best suitable for their design at the best price possible on the market.

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It's WAY more than suspicion. Zeiss and Schott go way back....

Carl-Zeiss-Stiftung was the sole owner of Carl Zeiss and Schott Glaswerke, and the long history of Schott and Zeiss.

"In 1884 Schott founded the Schott & Genossen Glaswerke at Mainz to develop new types of optical and heat resistant glass, and crystals. This collaboration resulted in the Jena Glass Works of Schott becoming the prime source of glass and filter materials for Zeiss products."

and....

"A number of events and products commemorate the 150th anniversary of the Carl- Zeiss-Stiftung (Carl Zeiss, Oberkochen and Schott Glasswerke, Mainz)."

http://www.smecc.org/ziess.htm

And also...

"The other division of the Carl Zeiss Foundation, the glass manufacturer Schott AG and Jenaer Glaswerk, is located in Mainz and Jena."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Zeiss_AG

Apparently, Zeiss still owns Schott, so why not use glass that another division of your company owns rather than Japanese glass? Perhaps because Schott glass is so damned expensive they don't want to price themselves out of the market by using their own glass!

As to Nikon Japanese optics costing as much as German and Austrian optics, that's a very recent trend, and it's only the Nikon EDG II model. And only Nikon, not Vixen, Kowa, Pentax, or Leupold.

Mike Freiberg explained why happened with the EDG II recently on the Nikon forum - higher production costs (they had to redesign the bin, because Swarovski either sued or threatened to sue them), and because the dollar is weak against the yen.

If you look back before the recession, for decades high quality Japanese optics have been cheaper than German and Austrian optics and have performed nearly as well or equally well.

Haven't heard about the price control wars, but they are competitors in optics, so that wouldn't surprise me since I doubt if Japan buys much Schott glass, compared to how much Germany buys glass from Japan, so Germany may be trying to level the playing field like the US has been with China.

Now that the genie is out of the bottle, the question is how much Ohara glass does Zeiss use in its binoculars and how much Schott?

Inquiring minds want to know what's what with Zeiss bin's glass before they fork over $1K-$2K+ for German branded bins with Japanese optics.

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brocknroller said:

It's WAY more than suspicion. Zeiss and Schott go way back....

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No doubt about that, Schott is owned by Zeiss.

brocknroller said:

Apparently, Zeiss still owns Schott, so why not use glass that another division of your company owns rather than Japanese glass?

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That second part is just a common assumption. But proved wrong by the video, by the statement of gary etc. And it's just logic, why should Zeiss exclusively use Schott glass, if another supplier has something that is better suitable for its bins, or perhaps something with the same characteristics but cheaper.

Inquiring minds want to know what's what with Zeiss bin's glass before they fork over $1K-$2K+ for German branded bins with Japanese optics.

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So even if we know if one particular lens is from Ohara glass made in Japan, or from Schott glass made in the US, do we know which is better or cheaper?. Again, here were are just guessing. A common assumption here seems to be Schott = German = the best = the most expensive. A bit simple, isn't it?

Not price controls but quantity

Bear in mind that Zeiss manufacture many things other than binoculars.

Surgical products, microscopes, lithography systems, process control systems, spectacles, camera lenses, planetariums and many other products.

Does anyone know what the Ohara glass was going to be used for.

Was there a "For Binocular Production" label on any of it ???????????

garymh said:

Bear in mind that Zeiss manufacture many things other than binoculars.

Surgical products, microscopes, lithography systems, process control systems, spectacles, camera lenses, planetariums and many other products.

Does anyone know what the Ohara glass was going to be used for.

Was there a "For Binocular Production" label on any of it ???????????

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Gary is absolutley right.

The video was about the production of rifle sights so its entirely possible that the Ohara glass was destined for this use. Moreover there is almost certainly a hierarchy of rifle sights in terms of price and performance and its quite likely a less expensive glass enables a rifle sight to be offered at a lower price point with the more expensive glass being reserved for top of the line products.

Lee

I can't see (sorry!) what difference it makes knowing what make of glass is used in any binocular. I don't care if the ones I own use the bottoms of beer bottles if they provide the best view.

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Hi Stan. I would have a agreed with you a few years ago. However, you have to consider that glass made from beer bottles or other cheap materials would not maintain there image quality, or be as robust, for as long as more expensive glass. That's what your paying for in a Alpha bin !