A (possibly) dumb question about DSLR mounts (1 Viewer)

lucznik · Jun 15, 2007

I have been very interested in the idea of attaching a DSLR to a spotting scope and have been reading everything I can about it. However, I'm not sure I totally understand something I read and I'm hoping someone can help me out...

When you attach a DSLR directly to a spotting scope by means of one of the various camera adapters and a T-mount, is the image "reversed" (up/down, right/left)?

If so, does this create problems in getting the image properly aligned and set up?

ThoLa · Jun 15, 2007

lucznik said:
I have been very interested in the idea of attaching a DSLR to a spotting scope and have been reading everything I can about it. However, I'm not sure I totally understand something I read and I'm hoping someone can help me out...

When you attach a DSLR directly to a spotting scope by means of one of the various camera adapters and a T-mount, is the image "reversed" (up/down, right/left)?

If so, does this create problems in getting the image properly aligned and set up?

Hello!
No, don't worry.
The image is just what you see with any ordinary telephoto lens.
The adapters (I happen to have one) contain lenses that project the image precisely onto the plane of the film or the digital chip.

An SLR with shake reduction will probably be helpful as "quakes" running through the setup can have a considerable effect.

Thomas

Sout Fork · Jun 22, 2007

lucznik said:
I have been very interested in the idea of attaching a DSLR to a spotting scope and have been reading everything I can about it. However, I'm not sure I totally understand something I read and I'm hoping someone can help me out...

When you attach a DSLR directly to a spotting scope by means of one of the various camera adapters and a T-mount, is the image "reversed" (up/down, right/left)?

If so, does this create problems in getting the image properly aligned and set up?

Your question is confusing.

If you mean by "directly attach" just using an optically passive (no optics in adaptor) mechanical adaptor then your image will NOT be correct. See pic 1.

If you mean an expensive specialized camera adaptor with optical correction than image will be correct. See pic 2

SF

HokkaidoStu · Jun 24, 2007

I've been asking similar questions on birdforum recently too about DSLRs asd Pentax Scopes as i'm also not 100% clear. My complete lack of knowledge of basic physics doesn't help either.

The standard Universal 'T' adapters which cost about $20-40 don't have any optics in them AFAIK. So due to spotting scope design being different from astro scope design I believe the image will be an inverted mirror image. Not such a problem with basic editing software but a pain in the field I'd imagine. Still for that price and only for occasional use of fairly stationary birds it's got to be worth it? I'll get round to buying one soon perhaps.

Pentax make a DSLR adapter presumably with optics to correctly invert the image for about $300 but as I understand it it will only work with Pentax DSLRs.

Sout Fork · Jun 24, 2007

stuprice68 said:
I've been asking similar questions on birdforum recently too about DSLRs asd Pentax Scopes as i'm also not 100% clear. My complete lack of knowledge of basic physics doesn't help either.

The standard Universal 'T' adapters which cost about $20-40 don't have any optics in them AFAIK. So due to spotting scope design being different from astro scope design I believe the image will be an inverted mirror image. Not such a problem with basic editing software but a pain in the field I'd imagine. Still for that price and only for occasional use of fairly stationary birds it's got to be worth it? I'll get round to buying one soon perhaps.

Pentax make a DSLR adapter presumably with optics to correctly invert the image for about $300 but as I understand it it will only work with Pentax DSLRs.

Yes your understanding is essentially correct. In addition with ONLY a T adaptor you will NOT be able to obtain focus at infinity. It will only come to focus in a very narrow close focus range from about ten to twenty feet. At least that's how it plays out on my 100mm Pentax. Also you will be getting about 18x rather than the 38x you get with a proper SLR adaptor.

Yes the SLR adaptor will only accept Pentax cameras directly. There may be some way to adapt it to other cameras but I am not aware of that.

Sparrow

HokkaidoStu · Jun 25, 2007

Sout Fork said:
Yes your understanding is essentially correct. In addition with ONLY a T adaptor you will NOT be able to obtain focus at infinity. It will only come to focus in a very narrow close focus range from about ten to twenty feet. At least that's how it plays out on my 100mm Pentax. Also you will be getting about 18x rather than the 38x you get with a proper SLR adaptor.

Yes the SLR adaptor will only accept Pentax cameras directly. There may be some way to adapt it to other cameras but I am not aware of that.

Sparrow

So there is basically no real way to use the Pentax 65ED with a non Pentax DSLR (other than utilizing the scope's eyepiece) ?

I've seen those eyepiece projection adapters online. Anyone tried those?

I supppose you could also attach the camera lens to the eyepiece with a step ring (there was a recent thread about this somewhere) but I'd be a bit worried about the threads supporting my nice expensive camera and anyway when all's said and done it would just be like regular digiscoping except the camera would be much bigger.

Would those universal T adapters work ok on astro scopes? I'm assuming they would.

ThoLa · Jun 25, 2007

stuprice68 said:
So there is basically no real way to use the Pentax 65ED with a non Pentax DSLR (other than utilizing the scope's eyepiece) ?

It sounds a bit strange.
It ought to be possible to attach other cameras.
Please check whether the contact between camera and adapter is a direct one, or if you need a special T-ring in addition.

I am using the Zeiss system. The photographic adapter is connected to the scope, and it connects only to Diascopes. To attach a camera one needs a (cheap) extra T-ring which is specific for the camera type (Pentax K mount in my case).
Any other type of camera is possible by changing the T-ring to fit the mount of the camera.

This set-up is also used by others, Swarovski for instance.
I would be surprised if Pentax were different.

It is true that the photographic adapters are expensive but there is no way to avoid them for SLR cameras.

If you use a digital one, try to get one with shake reduction. Vibrations due to mirror movements can be substantial.

Tom

Sout Fork · Jun 25, 2007

stuprice68 said:
So there is basically no real way to use the Pentax 65ED with a non Pentax DSLR (other than utilizing the scope's eyepiece) ?

I've seen those eyepiece projection adapters online. Anyone tried those?

I supppose you could also attach the camera lens to the eyepiece with a step ring (there was a recent thread about this somewhere) but I'd be a bit worried about the threads supporting my nice expensive camera and anyway when all's said and done it would just be like regular digiscoping except the camera would be much bigger.

Would those universal T adapters work ok on astro scopes? I'm assuming they would.

Stu,
I have been following your struggle to understand how to get into wildlife photography. Let me make a suggestion - think out of the box...

...instead of trying to adapt a very fine field scope that was never designed for photography get an inexpensive astro scope that was designed for this purpose. I use a 102mm wide field f5 Celestron this way and am very happy with the results. See pic. It cost $175 complete with two eps and a prism.

I would suggest something like this:
http://www.telescope.com/shopping/p...temID=10200&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=ota

There are many versions of this type of scope under other brand names so check around.

SF

HokkaidoStu · Jun 25, 2007

ThoLa said:
It sounds a bit strange.
It ought to be possible to attach other cameras.
Please check whether the contact between camera and adapter is a direct one, or if you need a special T-ring in addition.

I am using the Zeiss system. The photographic adapter is connected to the scope, and it connects only to Diascopes. To attach a camera one needs a (cheap) extra T-ring which is specific for the camera type (Pentax K mount in my case).
Any other type of camera is possible by changing the T-ring to fit the mount of the camera.

This set-up is also used by others, Swarovski for instance.
I would be surprised if Pentax were different.

It is true that the photographic adapters are expensive but there is no way to avoid them for SLR cameras.

If you use a digital one, try to get one with shake reduction. Vibrations due to mirror movements can be substantial.

Tom

Hi Tom. I have a Canon DSLR. According to this link it only takes Pentax K mounts DSLRs.

Pentax DSLR Adapter

Kowa make DSLR adapters that can be used with various mounts as do Swarowski, Zeiss and Leica. None of these make their own brand DSLRs though so I suppose they have to make them with universal fittings.

HokkaidoStu · Jun 25, 2007

Sout Fork said:
Stu,
I have been following your struggle to understand how to get into wildlife photography. Let me make a suggestion - think out of the box...

...instead of trying to adapt a very fine field scope that was never designed for photography get an inexpensive astro scope that was designed for this purpose. I use a 102mm wide field f5 Celestron this way and am very happy with the results. See pic. It cost $175 complete with two eps and a prism.

I would suggest something like this:
http://www.telescope.com/shopping/p...temID=10200&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=ota

There are many versions of this type of scope under other brand names so check around.

SF

Hi SF. I've been thinking along the same lines. Vixen make inexpensive astro scopes here in Japan............any recommendations as to what I should be looking for?

Hi lucznik. Sorry I seem to have hijacked your thread a bit. Guess you need to buy a special DSLR adapter if your Scope has one.....

Spot Focus · Jul 25, 2007

stuprice68 said:
So there is basically no real way to use the Pentax 65ED with a non Pentax DSLR (other than utilizing the scope's eyepiece) ?

I've seen those eyepiece projection adapters online. Anyone tried those?

I supppose you could also attach the camera lens to the eyepiece with a step ring (there was a recent thread about this somewhere) but I'd be a bit worried about the threads supporting my nice expensive camera and anyway when all's said and done it would just be like regular digiscoping except the camera would be much bigger.

Would those universal T adapters work ok on astro scopes? I'm assuming they would.

Hi stuprice68 there are various adapters designed to allow K mount lenes fit other makes of slr/ dslr. So if you were to get the pentax dslr to scope adapter and the fit a K mount adapted for the make you have it should work.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Pentax-K-PK-Lens-to-Canon-EOS-Camera-Adapter_W0QQitemZ330149902667QQihZ014QQcategoryZ30059QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Sout Fork · Jul 25, 2007

Spot Focus said:
Hi stuprice68 there are various adapters designed to allow K mount lenes fit other makes of slr/ dslr. So if you were to get the pentax dslr to scope adapter and the fit a K mount adapted for the make you have it should work.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Pentax-K-PK-Lens-to-Canon-EOS-Camera-Adapter_W0QQitemZ330149902667QQihZ014QQcategoryZ30059QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This may not work.

I can't tell for sure but just looking at the pictures it looks as if both adaptors are male. The termination on the end of the Pentax SLR adaptor is also male.

So what you would need is an adaptor with a female Pentax K mount on one side and a male Canon EOS adaptor on the other side.

Also the Pentax SLR adaptor is very sensitive to changes in focal length. If the barrel is not fully inserted into the scope you will lose focus at infinity. If I pull the adaptor out just an 1/8 of an inch on the barrel I lose focus at infinity so try before you buy.

SF

Spot Focus · Jul 25, 2007

Sout Fork said:
This may not work.

I can't tell for sure but just looking at the pictures it looks as if both adaptors are male. The termination on the end of the Pentax SLR adaptor is also male.

So what you would need is an adaptor with a female Pentax K mount on one side and a male Canon EOS adaptor on the other side.

Also the Pentax SLR adaptor is very sensitive to changes in focal length. If the barrel is not fully inserted into the scope you will lose focus at infinity. If I pull the adaptor out just an 1/8 of an inch on the barrel I lose focus at infinity so try before you buy.

SF

Hi here's another from memory the k mount lens fits inside and the male is the eos mount. Specs Adapter Fits Pentax PK K Lens To Canon EOS Adapter to 10d 30d 20d 350d 5d 1ds 1dsMark2

Compatible with:
Canon Camera SLR,DSLR
Condition: New
Detail Information' Adapter made of brass chrome coating. It features hard rigidity and beautiful chrome coating to avoid bended and oxidized. Out building tolerance is 0.02mm strictly.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Adapter-Fits-Pen...ryZ15215QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

HokkaidoStu · Jul 25, 2007

Thanks for the info Spot Focus.

I had already checked out some of those EOS to K mount adapters on e-bay. Some of them seem a bit fiddly and someone as cack handed as me would probably break something vitally important on my camera anyway.

Seriously though at over $300 for the Pentax DSLR adapter I don't know if it's worth it. I could get an astro SCOPE for that price and use that as a prime lens (and my wife can have the scope for stargazing as a bonus).

When winter comes I'll get a universal prime focus/eyepiece projection adapter and play around with that on my Pentax scope. If it doesn't work well (I don't have particularly high expectations) I'll keep the adapter and buy a cheap astro cat scope/ achromatic tube (when no doubt I'll be asking Sout Fork for his opinions).

lucznik · Jul 25, 2007

A quick search at OpticsPlanet turned up this little adapter that is designed with a standard 1.25" connection. With the addition of the appropriate T-Mount, it should work with any SLR/DSLR.

http://www.opticsplanet.net/bus125telspo.html

macshark · Aug 3, 2007

IMHO, it is better to invest in a telephoto lens instead of digiscoping if you are a DSLR user. Scopes and lightweight digicams are a good fit, but you would likely get better results by coupling the larger sensor of the DSLR with a good lens that can create a flat-field image. If you cannot get the magnification you are looking for, you can crop as necessary. You will also get autofocus.

lucznik · Aug 4, 2007

macshark said:
...it is better to invest in a telephoto lens instead of digiscoping if you are a DSLR user. ...you would likely get better results by coupling the larger sensor of the DSLR with a good lens that can create a flat-field image.

All things being equal, you are right. However, all things are not, in reality, equal. The problem is that good telephoto lenses, especially if you are looking for lots of magnification, are very, very expensive. Sure, I have one on my wish list and maybe someday I'll even be able to get one but until then, I'm just going to have to settle for the lower cost option of attaching my DSLR to my spotting scope and accepting the necessity of investing the needed time and effort into learning how to get good results.

macshark:963788 said:
If you cannot get the magnification you are looking for, you can crop as necessary.

Cropping very quickly results in a loss of image quality. It is not unlike the digital zooms on many point and shoot cameras.

macshark · Aug 4, 2007

lucznik said:
All things being equal, you are right. However, all things are not, in reality, equal. The problem is that good telephoto lenses, especially if you are looking for lots of magnification, are very, very expensive. Sure, I have one on my wish list and maybe someday I'll even be able to get one but until then, I'm just going to have to settle for the lower cost option of attaching my DSLR to my spotting scope and accepting the necessity of investing the needed time and effort into learning how to get good results.

This is generally true. However, a really high quality telephoto lens, like the Canon EF 400mm f/5.6L, is not a lot more expensive than a good quality scope. Of course, if one uses a scope most of the time for viewing, and occasionally for taking pictures, this may be a bit too much to invest.

Cropping very quickly results in a loss of image quality. It is not unlike the digital zooms on many point and shoot cameras.

This is also generally true, especially for digicams with small sensors and high pixel count. However, a good prime telephoto lens, even when used with a low end DSLR like the Canon XTi, should give you excellent 100% crops, provided that there was no camera shake and the AF correctly focused on the subject. You can easily crop a lot (i.e. get a 1-2MP section out of a 8-10MP frame) and still get a picture that is good enough for online use or a 5x7 or even 8x10 print. To get an idea, here is a 100% crop from the Sigma 50-500mm EX DG on a EOS350D, at ISO800, RAW (no post procesing or noise reduction).

Sout Fork · Aug 4, 2007

OK...

...here is a picture taken with a 1000mm (30x) achromat astro scope at about 50 to 60 feet. ISO 200 1/125 sec in jpeg format. Slight plain crop.

I don't think your 500mm (15x) zoom tele taken of the same bird at the same distance and then scaled up to match the same scale as the 1000mm shot would be able to maintain anywhere near the same quality of image that the 1000mm gives.

Or the pecker taken at about 60-70 feet with a 100mm (objective lens size not focal length) Pentax spotting scope at 38x (the eqiv of a 1910mm telephoto prime lens).

Or, for that matter the Grosbeak taken with a 100 buck 500mm (15x) astro scope at about 20 feet.

Maybe you could but I remain sceptical.

SF

JGobeil · Aug 4, 2007

These are very sharp pictures indeed Sout. Nice work ! What was the exact setup with the Pentax scope ? Eyepiece, adapter and camera ?
I am considering getting a PF80EDA. What eyepiece would you recommend for digiscoping ? XW20, XW14 or Maxview-PX ?

A (possibly) dumb question about DSLR mounts (1 Viewer)

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