Opticron confusion (1 Viewer)

pduxon · Nov 21, 2003

scampo said:
With a friend I was able to compare an ES80 with 20-60x zoom today in dull conditions at Rutland Water against the new Nikon Fieldscope 82 with equivalent zoom. The ES80 was very bright and sharp except at 60x when the image was a little disappointing; certainly - to our surprise, it compared well with the Nikon in every way.

But, we then had the chance to look through an Opticron HR66GAED and...

to the both of us, it proved the best of the three at all magnifications - bright, clear, sharp...

Now this is thoroughly confusing - I thought the Nikon would wipe the floor with the Opticrons. Absolutely it didn't and the 66mm seemed to be a gem - and, as I say, viewing conditions were trying. Sadly I hadn't got my son's Swarovski 65ED with me but, you know, I have a sneaky feeling that the Opticron 66 would have stood up well.

Has anyone any experience with this smaller Opticron scope?

Which goes to prove just why you should try before you buy. I haven't tried the 60x in testing conditions - its fine in bright sunshine, should be interesting tomorrow!!

The zoom on the 66 is 18-54 isn't it? Which is more than adequate. I only ever tried the non ed 66 - which was pretty good. The 66 ED is a bit dearer than the ES80 isn't it, especially if you go for the angled 66ED.

scampo · Nov 21, 2003

Hi Pete

Yes - it is a bit pricey compared with the ES80 but, as I say, to the two of us it seemed the better view, and we were surprised.

Now - that 54x might have contributed to the effect, I suppose. I shall take my son's Swarovski in when I next go before I buy but it does seem to be a lovely piece of kit and felt exceptionally tough and well made, too. Clearly it hasn't got the kudos of the Swarovski but if it stands up as well as it did today, I'll be more than pleased. What was a surprise was the Nikon 82 - in fact I still am wondering about this and finding it difficult to believe that the Opticron could appear to match it.

pduxon · Nov 21, 2003

If you think its worth the extra go for it. At the time I was looking I was buying bins as well so my budget had limits.

The Nikon ? Never tried it. Good be a dodgy model perhaps.

As to Kudos? Well if it helps you see the bird then go for it.

scampo · Nov 21, 2003

"As to Kudos? Well if it helps you see the bird then go for it..."

(-:

At £1000-1500 for a Swarovski, etc., you'd think the birds would come flocking in proud that someone thinks they're worth that much.

Forgot my tripod today but still had fantastic views of a Slavonian grebe at Rutland Water (off the dam). Great.

postcardcv · Nov 24, 2003

Don't be suprised that the Opticron performed so well. In my opinion they make the best mid-price optics available. I have used Opticron products for years and have always been very impressed with them. I have only changed my bins from them this year because I finally cracked and went for Leicas.
With scopes I would say that unless you go for a Leica, Swarovski (or a Zeiss - though personally I didn't think much of it) you'll be hard pushed to find better quality and certainly better value than Opticron products.

scampo · Nov 24, 2003

Hi - thanks for your reply. I did the same a while back and bought Swarovski binoculars. They are excellent though! But, sadly, I can't afford one of their scopes.

I went to Rutland Water today and put my son's Swarovski 65ED up against the Opticron HR66ED and ES80, all with zoom eyepieces. The lighting conditions were variable to good. Well, the Swarovski was, of course, very fine (I'd be daft not to say it - if only its stunning build quality and the ease of use of its zoom), but, you know, in the very real conditions of late November afternoon English weather, above about 40x no scope produced utterly clear and sharp images and, without doubt, both Opticron scopes stood up very well indeed against the top-flight Swarovski.

Well, after much humming and ahh-ing, I bought the Opticron ES80 - it really does seem to be truly excellent value and gave a neutral, sharp, wide and bright view. I'd have loved to go for one of the top makes but I think I'll be satisfied. Of course I could have stayed with what I'd got - but I fell in love with the zoom on my son's scope - so very useful when it matters.

postcardcv · Nov 24, 2003

I am sure you'll be very happy with it. I have also found that the top end of the zoom can suffer a bit in poor conditions, but most of the time it's fine. Next time your out use the zoom on some birds you see a lot and really enjoy the detail you'll see...

scampo · Nov 24, 2003

What did rather disappoint me was how much all of the zooms (I also had a chance to look through the Nikon 82, as well as the Swarovski) suffered in these conditions - just the kind of light that you might hope the top-end zooms would excel over the medium quality such as Opticron. Maybe we're all being won over by design and marketing skill?

pduxon · Nov 25, 2003

Steve

this has been a fascinating thread to read and one that proves that what ever anyone says you must try before you buy.

One of the things that bugs me about the birding press is that they seem to equate value for money only with top of the range optics. The two are not necessarily the same.

scampo · Nov 25, 2003

Pete

Although now an English teacher, I have a marketing background and have sen at first hand how relatively easily a product can be made tempting (and as I've said, I'm not averse to temptation - I'd buy a Swarovski tomorrow if I could...) - but what has amazed me is the way that three brands have cornered not so much the market as people's imaginations to the exclusion of all others, such that we'll never feel totally satisfied until we own one of them. And yet the differences between them are really rather small - and likely in some cases to be insignificant, I should think. Certainly in some of the threads on this forum, the assertions made for some products seem to me to be rather tenuous at least.

pduxon · Nov 25, 2003

I'll get in trouble for saying this but....

In hifi you can test something blind, the reviewer and the buyer doesn't need to know the brand he/she is listening to. Your preconceptions can be overturned as I've found out to my wallets cost!!

Can't do that with optics hence some of the claims. The likes of Swaro & Leica pride themselves on being an aspirational brand.

digi-birder · Nov 25, 2003

I know this thread is about scopes, but I have recently upgraded my Opticron binoculars and went through the "should I go for the Swarovskis?" dilemma.

In the hide where the In Focus demo was taking place at the North West Bird Fair the other week, I tried the range of Nikon HG and some Swarovski ELs. I kept looking at a group of static birds, switching back and forth between the two brands and could honestly not see why I should pay an extra £400 for the Swaros. So I went for the 8x32 Nikons and do not regret it for a minute.

Ruby · Nov 25, 2003

Hi Steve,

Hope you'll be happy with the ES80 - as mentioned, I am certainly happy with mine so far....

Rgds.... Ruby

digi-birder · Nov 25, 2003

Oops - should have mentioned that I also have the ES80 and I am not thinking of upgrading that just yet. It is a good scope both for digiscoping and general birding.

postcardcv · Nov 25, 2003

I think in terms of value for money the more you spend the poorer the value. The step up in cost from the likes of Opticron to the big three is huge, yet the difference in quality in normal viewing conditions is very small. That said poor light is when top optics really show their worth.
Having got my first ever pair of Leicas this year (having been with Opticron for many years) my wife tried them and said she could not see the difference. Then when out in nasty weather she had to conceed that they were much better. I think it comes down to decide if it's worth paying all the extra for just for the one in ten times when the extra quality shows.
That said I did try every pair of bins I could, and didn't buy just on the name - very nearly went for the RSPB HG at £449, which seemed incredible value. Went for the Leica Duovids in the end as they were the right combination of optical quality and comfort in the hand (something that people often don't think about).

postcardcv · Nov 25, 2003

I'm also an ES80 user and agree it's fantastic. Just avoid looking through and APO televid in poor light - I did and now I'm looking to upgrade. At least 90% of the time I'm very happy with the ES80, but it's the other 10% that gets me... I do hate to let a bird go un-ID'd.

digi-birder · Nov 25, 2003

Good point there about choosing bins that are comfortable in the hand - that was the other reason that made me go for the Nikons, in combination with the excellent optical quality. The Swaros just did not feel as comfortable.

It just goes to show that it's all down to personal preference and you do need to try as many brands as possible before finding one that suits, in both comfort and optically.

scampo · Nov 26, 2003

postcardcv said:
Just avoid looking through an APO televid in poor light - I did and now I'm looking to upgrade... I do hate to let a bird go un-ID'd.

The new Nikon ED82 didn't seem so very much of an improvement over the ES80 (which has ED glass, by the way) or the Swarovski 65ED in a side by side comparison. I'm beginning to doubt my own eyes but viewing conditions are all.

Edward woodwood · Nov 26, 2003

Almost everyone I know who has a pair of Nikon HGs rates them above the Swarowski's optically.

I mentioned somewhere else that the Swaros seem to be the bins chosen by relatively new birders though of course I may be wrong (again!), after all most birders of a few years already have a decent pair of bins. I dropped my trusty 7 x 42 Zeiss last year (happily now repaired) and replaced them with HGs - couldn't see the attraction of the Swaros - the two optic shop owners also rated them much higher optically and bear in mind the HG are much cheaper and prob. therefore mean less profit! I suspect a lot of it is to do with image and marketing....... :news:
If u think u get what u pay for bear in mind that when the HG first came out they were outlandishly expensive (almost over a grand I think) and hence never caught on)
In norfolk reference is already being made to the 'green swaro brigade!!!' o

scampo · Nov 26, 2003

Any attempt to criticise the newer Swarovski binoculars on technical grounds is likely to be rather spurious or unrealistic, surely? They are without doubt very bright, lightweight, wide, sharp, easy to hold and durably-made modern optical instruments.

Surely, all that can objectively be said is that they will not suit a few ergonomically and a lot more economically.

Whilst there is snobbishness with all consumer goods, to generalise and label a group of birders derogatively as being from the "Swaro brigade" seems to me to be rather unkind. One of the most amiable and knowledgable birders I have ever had the pleasure to meet was at Cley this year and he used Swarovski kit. I wouldn't condescend to label him as from any kind of "brigade".

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