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Yorkshire Birding (25 Viewers)
- Thread starter Hotspur
- Start date
Hotspur
James Spencer
Looks good for arctic as well extensive White rump, fluffed feathering, small bill and buff wash to head
Ben M
Well-known member
That is the best Arctic candidate I have seen posted here recently, but I am not suggesting it is.
These are the pro features:
Small poll
Lacking obvious red/pink on the breast
Overall white/very pale
Little evidence of distinct ear covert
These are the against features:
Photo seems overexposed
Still quite a bit of buff toning
Difficult to judge bill size due to some blurring (and this is posture dependent anyway)
Still some evidence of ear covert patch
Still some evidence of pink on breast which maybe being lessened by overexposure
I'm a beginner with scarce Redpolls, so please feedback with any mistakes I might be making :t:
Doc, I think your first is a Lesser - the brown tones to the wingbar as Ben says.
I think your second is a Common. I think your third is also a Common, but would like to see more shots of that one, if it is different to 2.
Re the fourth, it is hard to say. The rump could appear bigger because the photo is slightly blurred. I thought the bill was too big but just realised it's a bud!. The fifth is a Common - not sure if 4 and 5 are the same. If they are I think Common. If not 4 isn't a bad shout for Arctic, now I've realised about the bill.
The problem is you need to see the clear white rump, stubby bill, and the undertail coverts - no more than a single streak.
I think the one in Vwxyzn's mate's garden is an Arctic!!!!!
Doc, may do Redhouse tommoz.
Edit: may be wrong, but just to add to our woes, I'm sure the Commons get browner as we move out of winter, and the gap between Common and Lesser closes in mantle tones.
I think your second is a Common. I think your third is also a Common, but would like to see more shots of that one, if it is different to 2.
Re the fourth, it is hard to say. The rump could appear bigger because the photo is slightly blurred. I thought the bill was too big but just realised it's a bud!. The fifth is a Common - not sure if 4 and 5 are the same. If they are I think Common. If not 4 isn't a bad shout for Arctic, now I've realised about the bill.
The problem is you need to see the clear white rump, stubby bill, and the undertail coverts - no more than a single streak.
I think the one in Vwxyzn's mate's garden is an Arctic!!!!!
Doc, may do Redhouse tommoz.
Edit: may be wrong, but just to add to our woes, I'm sure the Commons get browner as we move out of winter, and the gap between Common and Lesser closes in mantle tones.
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Ben M
Well-known member
Steve, if so, are you more in favour of Coues's or Hornemann’s?
I would say it's closer to 1st w Hornemann’s.
vwxyzen
swillybirder
It does look good doesn't it. Unfortunately it's not "mine", I've not seen it and have only had pics passed on from a friend of a friend.
Another pic attached, from a few days earlier (assuming it's the same bird)
Attachments
Now there I start to struggle, if I wasn't struggling before!
Anyhow, having seen the second pic., it has to be an Arctic of some race.
I don't suppose viewing access is possible is it? I was contemplating heading to Rainton Meadows tomorrow.
vwxyzen
swillybirder
Rump & UTCs look good but is that a bud or the bird's bill in pic 1?
If it is the bill it looks massive, if it's a bud then it's a different colour to the others!
vwxyzen
swillybirder
I don't even know where it is, like I say it's a third hand bird and I would very much doubt anyone will open their garden up for it.
Ben M
Well-known member
Based on that second photo I'm back to Mealy or Coues's. The lighting conditions on that one have either forced the camera to push up the levels or it's been done in post-processing. The effect is that the rump is over exposed and could be hiding some mild streaking. It should be closer to the wing-bar tone.
In this photo the ear covert is much more defined, and the bib is extensive - for me, these are factors that favour Mealy over Coues's. What a difference the lighting makes!
BirdFlower
Always more to learn
Beginning to wonder if there shouldn't be a separate Yorkshire thread for Redpolls?
birdieboy123
All The Gear, No Idea
What a good idea
melodious
Well-known member
One handy feature of Hornemann's is they look about as big and bulky as a Bullfinch! It's not one of those, if it was you wouldn't question if it was an Arctic, you would know it was one. Mealy/Coue's is the tricky pairing.
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Yep same here.
I'm beginning to wonder if they shouldn't lump them all.
And whilst they're at it they could do crossbills, and one or two other species as well.
DOC REED
Well-known member
Bloody hell! These birds are a pleasure..and a nightmare...that does look good though!!
If folks getting bored....should we be starting redpoll thread...I luv 'em ,but realise not everyone else might??
I think they r massive challenge, we don't know enough about 'em.....getting opinions on here has helped me massively with ID of these birds...happy to start Yorks redpoll thread if thats best idea????????????
melodious
Well-known member
It tends to be the other way round at least intially. Lessers fade from late winter and their plumage can become very Mealy like by spring. Later on, in the summer, as all the pale feather edges wear off, both, but particularly Lesser, can look rather dark. After the post breeding moult both initially have a lot of buff and brown in there plumage until the feather fringes and wingbars become bleached. Mealies are perhaps most easy to distinguish between say October and February.
The big problem with Coue's and Mealy is that no single feature holds. ID is based on the probability of a given bird showing a suite of more likely features. Both can have streaked or unstreaked rumps (though the latter is much commoner in Coue's) or at least appear to in the field, both have variable streaking on the flanks and undertail coverts (and even worn Lessers can appear to have un-streaked undertail coverts), variably marked ear coverts etc. Assessing 'fluffyness' of plumage also means assessing weather conditions and what other nearby redpolls are doing. Bill size is variable and an assessment of the position of the forehead feathering (sleaked or raised?) is required. A 'classic' Coue's with a big white rump, minimal streaking, small looking bill etc. can be very distinctive but these 'classic' birds may well not be the commonest plumage variation particularly 'out of range' birds where a higher proportion of young birds is likely.
DOC REED
Well-known member
Ok..some are bored....started a new thread...under Yorkshire..for redpolls
For those interested..maybe we can learn,,, maybe we can help sort them out.
I personally am intrigued....Lessers with white rumps, Arctics flushed pink etc etc
They are a pleasure to have on my patch....those moaning haven't particularly contributed to this site this winter..whats on your patch guys?? Tell us what u r interested in this winter??
Come on...what have u found???Tell us!
I think there will be little response!!
Paul
ps I apologise already..its different as a local patcher..sorry..no offense meant!!
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