john miller
Well-known member
On a scale of angry, furious, wild. They appeared only mildly peeved
The half dozen Canada with them did not held their credentials either.John
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Norfolk birding (21 Viewers)
- Thread starter Edward woodwood
- Start date
On a scale of angry, furious, wild. They appeared only mildly peeved
The half dozen Canada with them did not held their credentials either.John
petehasset
Well-known member
Several thousand Pink Footed Geese on the Acle strait this lunch time along with good numbers of Lapwing , Redshank , Curlew & Golden plovers , Breydon Water had est 3000 Wigeon a few Pintail about 40 Avocets & loads of Dunlin . The road past Horsey Mill had Snipe , Hen Harrier , Lapwing & Pink Footed Geese , around Waxham there were 2 large flocks of Golden Plover , Sea Palling to the Stalham turning there were 8 Whooper Swans in a pond opp the farm shop in a field a Marsh Harrier & 4 Cranes flying over , not bad for 3hours birding :t:
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Penny Clarke
Well-known member
Northern Harrier was seen at Titchwell RSPB this afternoon and flew west towards Thornham - sadly not seen by me though!
Best Wishes
Penny:girl:
Best Wishes
Penny:girl:
lostinjapan
Well-known member
On a scale of angry, furious, wild. They appeared only mildly peeved
John[/
Well on a par with the Ruddy Shelduck I found with his 48 feral Egyptian friends, though he seemed rather chilled
Searched in vain for Lapland Bunting today at Breydon South Wall. Saw many of the birds already mentioned. I'd estimate 5000 Wigeon, 1-2000 Pinkfeet flying to roost, 40+ Avocet, 400+ Blackwit and smaller numbers of commoner waders. Other highlights were 30+ Med Gulls among 1000's of roosting Black-headed Gulls and 3 Barn Owl hunting the grazing marshes.
Sean
I suspect the majority of unusual geese found in Norfolk are escapes or feral birds.
I am not sure about the present Ross goose at Kelling , but the 2 Ross geese that were ( one still is ) with the pink feet on the coast originate from Pensthorpe where they held free winged birds some years ago that used to disappear from Pensthorpe at the time Ross geese were seen with the pinks on the coast only to reappear at Pensthorpe at a time when they could not be found along the coast. After several years of this pattern 2 birds joined the pink feet as permanent flock members and migrated with them. One paired with a pink foot and produced hybrid goslings and the other was found dead on the shore next to a pink foot roost.
Like wise the Richardson Canada that was seen at Holkham a few years ago was almost certainly the same bird that used to be with the then resident Yare Valley barnacle geese that used to also visit the River Wensum valley in winter, It wintered at Pensthorpe with 17 feral barnacles for many years and on its first visits to the coast was usually seen with the same feral barnacles , before adopting the latter site. Again when it was absent from Pensthorpe during the winter months it could frequently be found on the coast and visa versa. I suspect it originated from the waterfowl collection at Fritton Lake.
There were also two lesser white fronts that used to fly up to the coast at times from Pensthorpe and a few from the Otter trust that used the Broadland Marshes. However three lesser white fronts at Wolferton in 1978 might have been the real thing or more probably from the Swedish introduction project.
The red breasted goose that frequented the brent flocks came from a collection close to Sherringham. The guy gave up keeping waterfowl and had 7 red brested geese one being free winged When I went up to catch up his birds there were only the 6 pinioned birds in the pen. Two days later a red breast turned up with the Burnham brents. So that was most likely the missing birds.
Most of the feral barnacle geese in Norfolk originated from a small free winged flock I kept at St Olaves back in the 1970s though later many were bred Fritton lake. This flock mainly used the Suffolk marshes and built up to over 400 roosting on Lound water works , though in recent years numbers appear to have declined sharply here. A second flock of free winged barnacles were kept by a Mr Rose at Snettisham and frequently fed on the saltmarsh at Wolferton though I have not seen these birds in recent years , but I do not get that way very often.
There was a third flock on a fishery south of Norwich of about 20 plus a number of bar headed geese.
I am not sure about the present Ross goose at Kelling , but the 2 Ross geese that were ( one still is ) with the pink feet on the coast originate from Pensthorpe where they held free winged birds some years ago that used to disappear from Pensthorpe at the time Ross geese were seen with the pinks on the coast only to reappear at Pensthorpe at a time when they could not be found along the coast. After several years of this pattern 2 birds joined the pink feet as permanent flock members and migrated with them. One paired with a pink foot and produced hybrid goslings and the other was found dead on the shore next to a pink foot roost.
Like wise the Richardson Canada that was seen at Holkham a few years ago was almost certainly the same bird that used to be with the then resident Yare Valley barnacle geese that used to also visit the River Wensum valley in winter, It wintered at Pensthorpe with 17 feral barnacles for many years and on its first visits to the coast was usually seen with the same feral barnacles , before adopting the latter site. Again when it was absent from Pensthorpe during the winter months it could frequently be found on the coast and visa versa. I suspect it originated from the waterfowl collection at Fritton Lake.
There were also two lesser white fronts that used to fly up to the coast at times from Pensthorpe and a few from the Otter trust that used the Broadland Marshes. However three lesser white fronts at Wolferton in 1978 might have been the real thing or more probably from the Swedish introduction project.
The red breasted goose that frequented the brent flocks came from a collection close to Sherringham. The guy gave up keeping waterfowl and had 7 red brested geese one being free winged When I went up to catch up his birds there were only the 6 pinioned birds in the pen. Two days later a red breast turned up with the Burnham brents. So that was most likely the missing birds.
Most of the feral barnacle geese in Norfolk originated from a small free winged flock I kept at St Olaves back in the 1970s though later many were bred Fritton lake. This flock mainly used the Suffolk marshes and built up to over 400 roosting on Lound water works , though in recent years numbers appear to have declined sharply here. A second flock of free winged barnacles were kept by a Mr Rose at Snettisham and frequently fed on the saltmarsh at Wolferton though I have not seen these birds in recent years , but I do not get that way very often.
There was a third flock on a fishery south of Norwich of about 20 plus a number of bar headed geese.
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Robert S J Smith
Well-known member
Lynn Docks to Lynn Point and Roydon Common
Just got back in from a walk, Lynn Docks to Lynn Point. Starting at the docks a female Peregrine sat on the grain tower and a Grey Wagtail flew over. In the docks on the water itself CG, BHG, HG, LBBG and GBBG could be seen and a Kingfisher sat on a post on the keys edge. Walking down to the point the hawthorn bushes were alive with birds Thrushes in particular and at the paddocks a Great Spotted Woodpecker was present along with 10+ House Sparrows. Finally at the point the marshes held c.500 Brent Geese, c.100 Wigeon, 1 Water Rail and a single Short-eared Owl.
This evening at Roydon Common 3 Hen Harriers came into roost 2 cracking males and a ringtail also two Woodcocks were flying around.
P.s. After I left the Lynn Docks my friends found 2 Scaup in with the Pochards by the fisher fleet
Regards,
Just got back in from a walk, Lynn Docks to Lynn Point. Starting at the docks a female Peregrine sat on the grain tower and a Grey Wagtail flew over. In the docks on the water itself CG, BHG, HG, LBBG and GBBG could be seen and a Kingfisher sat on a post on the keys edge. Walking down to the point the hawthorn bushes were alive with birds Thrushes in particular and at the paddocks a Great Spotted Woodpecker was present along with 10+ House Sparrows. Finally at the point the marshes held c.500 Brent Geese, c.100 Wigeon, 1 Water Rail and a single Short-eared Owl.
This evening at Roydon Common 3 Hen Harriers came into roost 2 cracking males and a ringtail also two Woodcocks were flying around.
P.s. After I left the Lynn Docks my friends found 2 Scaup in with the Pochards by the fisher fleet
Regards,
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lostinjapan
Well-known member
Hi Tideliner
Some interesting stuff there. So I wonder why given that knowledge many birders still tick the Ross's.
When you refer to the Red-breasted Goose, when did that bird escape?
Sean
Some interesting stuff there. So I wonder why given that knowledge many birders still tick the Ross's.
When you refer to the Red-breasted Goose, when did that bird escape?
Sean
firstreesjohn
Well-known member
Runny-nosed wader & closed-eyed rodent
Gramboro' held only male and female Stonechats.
A nice view of winter-plumaged Dunlin proved irresistible from my car, as I prepared to drive away.
Friary Hills NT had little in the way of avian delights; although I might have heard a Blackcap tacking.
The pièce de résistance, however, was this little rodent- which had me flummoxed. It fed mainly in the shade, alerting me by running across my path. It seemed quite deaf and its eyes were mostly closed (with the cold?) and it was snuffling around in the leaf litter, quite oblivious to me. (Sadly, no Pittas accompanying.)
Kind members have quickly ID'd it as Wood Mouse.
Gramboro' held only male and female Stonechats.
A nice view of winter-plumaged Dunlin proved irresistible from my car, as I prepared to drive away.
Friary Hills NT had little in the way of avian delights; although I might have heard a Blackcap tacking.
The pièce de résistance, however, was this little rodent- which had me flummoxed. It fed mainly in the shade, alerting me by running across my path. It seemed quite deaf and its eyes were mostly closed (with the cold?) and it was snuffling around in the leaf litter, quite oblivious to me. (Sadly, no Pittas accompanying.)
Kind members have quickly ID'd it as Wood Mouse.
Attachments
lostinjapan
Well-known member
Right, not the one I saw..phew. Though I did see the Lesser-White Front in the Yare Valley in the late 80's.but never counted that!!
Cheers
Sean
David Norgate
Well-known member
Some of Tideliners comments are quite valid, however, proof would be an interesting concept here! As well as the assumptions that birds seen in proceeding years are one and the same. However, it definitely doesn't account for all the 'vagrant' geese seen in Norfolk (Does he assume that there is no possibility of 'wild' birds turning up in Norfolk?) and the rest of the country. Considering the number of wild Pink-foot and Brents, with lesser numbers of other 'wild' species, it only seems logical (to me, at least, although again without 'proof' in this country) that with so many 'carrier' groups of geese that wild ones would appear here.
PS remember that Tideliner doesn't list or twitch and has his own agenda on many aspects of birding.
Although it does bring to the forefront of the issue of places like Pensthorp not taking responsibility for their 'property' and it would (should) be responsible for ringing 'their' birds - shame it doesn't happen by them and many others! Should be a law about it!!
PS remember that Tideliner doesn't list or twitch and has his own agenda on many aspects of birding.
Although it does bring to the forefront of the issue of places like Pensthorp not taking responsibility for their 'property' and it would (should) be responsible for ringing 'their' birds - shame it doesn't happen by them and many others! Should be a law about it!!
Dave Appleton
Well-known member
Hi Tideliner, this is an interesting revelation. I'd heard rumours to this effect before but lacking the detail. Perphaps the rumours originated from your observations...
Can you clarify the dates of what you're talking about here? The first Ross's Goose among the Pink-feet that I recall was the first-winter bird that arrived in November 2001, and that remained with the Pink-feet continuously so far as I know. When were the two birds you refer to commuting between the Pink-foot flocks on the north coast and Pensthorpe? Was that before the first-winter bird turned up in 2001, or did it include that bird?
An adult Ross's reappeared the following winter, which I assumed to be the same returning bird, and then in 2003/04 I saw a total of 3 Ross's Geese among the Pink-feet. I am not aware of any sightings of two of these apart from the Pink-foot flocks, but the third bird was a blue plastic-ringed bird that spent the majority of its time with feral geese. This bird only joined the Pink-footed Geese temporarily - for no more than 2-3 days as far as I know. It wouldn't surprise me if this bird came from Pensthorpe, or even commuted between Pensthorpe and the north coast, but I don't believe it migrated with Pink-footed Geese.
I didn't see any Ross's Geese with the Pink-feet the following winter, though I don't recall if anyone else did, nor the following winter (the bird reports don't make it clear that any were present with the Pink-feet during those winters).
A Ross's Goose appeared in 2007/08. This bird was, I assume, a different bird as it had several black secondaries which I don't think were present on the earlier birds. It was also seen migrating with Pink-feet elsewhere in the UK. One was present the following winter, though spending most of its time in the east of the county I didn't see it often. I don't recall any present last winter, but one has appeared again this winter (I've not seen it yet).
Part of the difficulty with assessing these is that the Pink-footed Goose flocks when they're on the coast (and sometimes when they're inland, e.g. at Flitcham) will often share the same fields as feral geese, and then people see them together and draw conclusions. In my experience it is actually extremely unusual for feral geese to stay with the wild goose flocks for any length of time. I have frequently watched the goose flocks feeding inland near my workplace and apart from vagrant geese of uncertain origin I have seen the following individually identifiable geese on multiple occasions:
- various neck-collared Pink-feet
- various leucistic or otherwise aberrant Pink-feet
- the hybrid goose, presumed Pink-foot x Ross's
- a Pale-bellied Brent Goose (surely the same one each time as it's at the greyer-bellied end of the variation in Pale-bellied)
- several adult Greenland White-fronted Geese (with indvidually unique belly markings)
Away from sites that normally have feral geese present regardless of whether there are Pink-feet in the area, I've only seen large-race Canada Geese (i.e. obviously feral ones) and Egyptian Geese on one occasion each. At the coast, and at places like Flitcham, it's not uncommon to see these species among Pink-feet, because they happen to be in the same field, but inland away from places normally frequented by feral geese the Pink-foot flocks contained only Pink-feet and, sometimes, birds that at least MIGHT be wild.
There certainly are a few Ross's Geese around which are very probably of escaped origin, but I've personally not seen any evidence that these are linked to the spate of sightings of apparently wild and migrating birds that remain with Pink-feet. Personally I'm open minded and don't care much whether I'm allowed to tick them or not, but I find it much easier to believe they're wild than not. If feral and escaped birds to habitually join up with, and stay with, wild Pink-footed Geese, then why don't Egyptian Geese and large Canada Geese do that? Why's it only the ones that are quite likely to occur here in a natural state?
David Norgate
Well-known member
Norfolk Snake
Well-known member
geese
The subject of potential vagrant geese amidst flocks of 'wild' geese has long been a thorny one. I think the problem is - those who avidly list want everything to be wild and genuine and those who shoot, keep wildfowl, hate 'birders/twitchers' have pre -conceived views that any rare duck or goose is an escape and should never be 'accepted' onto a list, be it national or county. As someone who has lived in North Norfolk and watched the numbers of wild geese increase to unprecedented numbers from my youth in the early 1980s, I have always had a great fascination in watching habits, behaviour, whereabouts and identification matters of the various species and sub species of wild geese found in North Norfolk. I remain very open minded about the issue of vagrant geese and I think a sensible attitude needs to be adopted, but it is of course very difficult to assess every record with certainty. The simple fact is that no one knows for definite the origins of every potential vagrant. What we do know is that geese are highly migratory and will attract other lost species. We also know that both Snow and genuine wild Canada geese have crossed the Atlantic (due to ringing recoveries) and there does n't really seem to be any reason why other species (Ross's included) should not occasionally follow the same route. Of course wildfowl do escape from collections and are capable of joining up with wild geese - I have seen Bar-headed and Ruddy Shelduck with Pinkfeet, but I would definitely contest a lot of what Tideliner wrote in his above post. Some Barnacle Geese originate from Greenland and there is no reason why most of the birds with the pinkfeet (there are usually only very small numbers anyway and some ringed ones have been seen) are not wild. Ringed birds from Russian populations have also occurred. True there are feral birds about but by getting to grips with birds on ones local patch and watching how they behave and where they go, it should not be too difficult to work out potential wild birds from esapes/ferals. This may be more confusing as time goes on as the species is now a regular nester on Holkham Lake.
As for Ross's Geese, well who really knows. All I would say is that prior to the appearance of the juvenile bird with the Pinkfeet in November 2001 I had never seen one in the Holkham area (be it feral or potential vagrant). It arrived with the pinks and left with them. By its timid behaviour and small size it was thought to be a female and returned for a further 2 winters. Enquiries at that time to Bill Makins at Pensthorpe revealed that he did n t really know whether he had lost any or not, although he told me face to face, all his birds had rings, but his rather blase attitude was that the bird at North Norfolk had to be an escape as the species would n't be capable of migrating ! The following year (2002) another different Ross's Goose appeared - it was definitely a larger bird and due to its aggresive behaviour could safely be sexed as a gander. It also returned for a further 2 winters (at least I think from memory). It had such a unique look and jizz that it could instantly be told from the original bird. Since then the picture has become more confusing , but probably safe to say at least another 3-5 different individuals have arrived/departed with Pinkfeet in the ensuing years. Some have even been seen further north in Lancashire/Scotland - not disappearing back to Pensthorpe. As for the hybrid issue - yes there was one regularly returning bird that looked to be a Pinkfoot-Ross's hybrid (but no one knew that for definite) but it seems not to be here this year. As for one of the original birds mating with a Pinkfoot, well that might have happened elsewhere, but there was absolutely no evidence to suggest that either one of those original birds was paired to a pinkfoot. Close , regular goose watching by those of us who study the geese with bins and scopes (not the sights of a gun !) told us that much.
One sad aspect on the whole issue is that no one has attempted to annually sumarise the occurrences of Ross's Geese, in an unbaised, thoughtful way. Clearly there have been an upsurge in records of potential wild birds (perhaps mirroring increasing numbers in their breeding grounds?) yet numbers and patterns are being missed - just look at the shambolic way the species is handled in the Norfolk Bird Report. If there is a pattern emerging and if one day a bird arrives sporting a Canadian ring, then trying to work out past records will be a logistical nightmare ! Also if there is a growing feral population, this also needs to be better documented.
Canada Geese - again I would disagree with Tideliner, there have been 3 Richardson's geese with the pinkfeet spread between 1983 and 2006 (the last one I think?) and several different Todd's/Lesser Canda Geese (using the old fashioned names!) and again apart from the odd one in mid summer at somewhere like Holkham Lake, nothing to suggest escapes. In fact if you look at the spread of species within flocks in some of the big pinkfeet years ie Pale bellied Brent, Barnacle, small/lesser Canadas, Greenland White-front, Snow, Ross's - all originate from a definite Greenland/arctic Canada breeding range and as pinkfeet come from Greenland - Iceland it does nt take a genius to see the links of association.
Red breasted Geese - well there have been up to 7 or 8 birds (again from memory) through the years with the brents in North Norfolk. Most (but not all ) have been first winter birds, proving that each record is not the same bird returning. Some of the birds (such as the pair of 2007) were also seen elsewhere both in this country and on the near continent. True there have been feral birds at large in East Anglia but those who regularly watch an area knows the score. I would think the only dodgy Red breast was the one that hung out with the pinkfeet for a couple of winters as in the intervining time what was almost certainly the same bird was seen with Canadas in late summer at Titchwell.
So in summary all I would say is keep an open mind, keep watching them, enjoying them, don't get too hung up on lists and don't listen to too much squit (as they say in Norfolk...) from so called experts
Andy Bloomfield
The subject of potential vagrant geese amidst flocks of 'wild' geese has long been a thorny one. I think the problem is - those who avidly list want everything to be wild and genuine and those who shoot, keep wildfowl, hate 'birders/twitchers' have pre -conceived views that any rare duck or goose is an escape and should never be 'accepted' onto a list, be it national or county. As someone who has lived in North Norfolk and watched the numbers of wild geese increase to unprecedented numbers from my youth in the early 1980s, I have always had a great fascination in watching habits, behaviour, whereabouts and identification matters of the various species and sub species of wild geese found in North Norfolk. I remain very open minded about the issue of vagrant geese and I think a sensible attitude needs to be adopted, but it is of course very difficult to assess every record with certainty. The simple fact is that no one knows for definite the origins of every potential vagrant. What we do know is that geese are highly migratory and will attract other lost species. We also know that both Snow and genuine wild Canada geese have crossed the Atlantic (due to ringing recoveries) and there does n't really seem to be any reason why other species (Ross's included) should not occasionally follow the same route. Of course wildfowl do escape from collections and are capable of joining up with wild geese - I have seen Bar-headed and Ruddy Shelduck with Pinkfeet, but I would definitely contest a lot of what Tideliner wrote in his above post. Some Barnacle Geese originate from Greenland and there is no reason why most of the birds with the pinkfeet (there are usually only very small numbers anyway and some ringed ones have been seen) are not wild. Ringed birds from Russian populations have also occurred. True there are feral birds about but by getting to grips with birds on ones local patch and watching how they behave and where they go, it should not be too difficult to work out potential wild birds from esapes/ferals. This may be more confusing as time goes on as the species is now a regular nester on Holkham Lake.
As for Ross's Geese, well who really knows. All I would say is that prior to the appearance of the juvenile bird with the Pinkfeet in November 2001 I had never seen one in the Holkham area (be it feral or potential vagrant). It arrived with the pinks and left with them. By its timid behaviour and small size it was thought to be a female and returned for a further 2 winters. Enquiries at that time to Bill Makins at Pensthorpe revealed that he did n t really know whether he had lost any or not, although he told me face to face, all his birds had rings, but his rather blase attitude was that the bird at North Norfolk had to be an escape as the species would n't be capable of migrating ! The following year (2002) another different Ross's Goose appeared - it was definitely a larger bird and due to its aggresive behaviour could safely be sexed as a gander. It also returned for a further 2 winters (at least I think from memory). It had such a unique look and jizz that it could instantly be told from the original bird. Since then the picture has become more confusing , but probably safe to say at least another 3-5 different individuals have arrived/departed with Pinkfeet in the ensuing years. Some have even been seen further north in Lancashire/Scotland - not disappearing back to Pensthorpe. As for the hybrid issue - yes there was one regularly returning bird that looked to be a Pinkfoot-Ross's hybrid (but no one knew that for definite) but it seems not to be here this year. As for one of the original birds mating with a Pinkfoot, well that might have happened elsewhere, but there was absolutely no evidence to suggest that either one of those original birds was paired to a pinkfoot. Close , regular goose watching by those of us who study the geese with bins and scopes (not the sights of a gun !) told us that much.
One sad aspect on the whole issue is that no one has attempted to annually sumarise the occurrences of Ross's Geese, in an unbaised, thoughtful way. Clearly there have been an upsurge in records of potential wild birds (perhaps mirroring increasing numbers in their breeding grounds?) yet numbers and patterns are being missed - just look at the shambolic way the species is handled in the Norfolk Bird Report. If there is a pattern emerging and if one day a bird arrives sporting a Canadian ring, then trying to work out past records will be a logistical nightmare ! Also if there is a growing feral population, this also needs to be better documented.
Canada Geese - again I would disagree with Tideliner, there have been 3 Richardson's geese with the pinkfeet spread between 1983 and 2006 (the last one I think?) and several different Todd's/Lesser Canda Geese (using the old fashioned names!) and again apart from the odd one in mid summer at somewhere like Holkham Lake, nothing to suggest escapes. In fact if you look at the spread of species within flocks in some of the big pinkfeet years ie Pale bellied Brent, Barnacle, small/lesser Canadas, Greenland White-front, Snow, Ross's - all originate from a definite Greenland/arctic Canada breeding range and as pinkfeet come from Greenland - Iceland it does nt take a genius to see the links of association.
Red breasted Geese - well there have been up to 7 or 8 birds (again from memory) through the years with the brents in North Norfolk. Most (but not all ) have been first winter birds, proving that each record is not the same bird returning. Some of the birds (such as the pair of 2007) were also seen elsewhere both in this country and on the near continent. True there have been feral birds at large in East Anglia but those who regularly watch an area knows the score. I would think the only dodgy Red breast was the one that hung out with the pinkfeet for a couple of winters as in the intervining time what was almost certainly the same bird was seen with Canadas in late summer at Titchwell.
So in summary all I would say is keep an open mind, keep watching them, enjoying them, don't get too hung up on lists and don't listen to too much squit (as they say in Norfolk...) from so called experts
Andy Bloomfield
Happisbirder
Always looking, seldom finding...
Perhaps you're just the man to put together such a review Andy. I know you're very well respected throughout the county (and beyond!), and if anyone asked me who to ask about Geese, yourself and James McC would be the boys I'd recommend...
James
Andy Musgrove
Well-known member
On the subject of interesting wildfowl, a funny thing happened last week when I went to knock off an atlas tetrad at Wicklewood (NW of Wymondham). I was wandering around some farmland when I spotted a small (mostly frozen) lake that wasn't on the OS map, so clearly newly dug. A-ha, I thought, a goose for my atlas visit. Raising my bins, I was somewhat bemused to discover:
2 Red-breasted Goose
6 Black Swan
6 Mandarin
2 Wood Duck
2 Ruddy Sheldduck
2 Shelduck
1 Philippine Duck (!)
2 Barnacle Geese
2 Canada Geese
1 Marbled Duck
1 Red-billed Teal
2 Gadwall
1 Goldeneye
1 Spot-billed Duck
2 Ruddy-headed Geese
2 ? (perhaps Blue-winged Geese in retrospect, I didn't recognise them at the time)
6 Mallard
6 Moorhen
All this came as a bit of a shock. Obviously, I guess most will have been pinioned, but it comes as a reminder that clearly there is a lot of potential for escapes in the Norfolk countryside. Needless to say, most of these will not be appearing in the final atlas maps...
P.S. Although I take others' comments about Ross's Geese, my gut feeling is that birds clearly arriving with pinks in the autumn and leaving in the spring are probably mostly wild. Perhaps not provable beyond reasonable doubt, but this seems a highly likely species to occur as a wild vagrant.
P.P.S Mega count of Gadwall this morning at Whitlingham - 720! Smashes my previous record. Also the 2 males RC Pochards on the Little Broad. A male "Lesser Scaup" type Aythya hybrid on the Great Broad at the eastern end also. Might be worth a look if you're passing, since I initially named last winter's Greater Scaup there as a hybrid.... It does appear to have a lot of black on the bill type though, and rather too tufty a crown-peak for my liking. Happy to be proved wrong though...
Cheers
Andy
2 Red-breasted Goose
6 Black Swan
6 Mandarin
2 Wood Duck
2 Ruddy Sheldduck
2 Shelduck
1 Philippine Duck (!)
2 Barnacle Geese
2 Canada Geese
1 Marbled Duck
1 Red-billed Teal
2 Gadwall
1 Goldeneye
1 Spot-billed Duck
2 Ruddy-headed Geese
2 ? (perhaps Blue-winged Geese in retrospect, I didn't recognise them at the time)
6 Mallard
6 Moorhen
All this came as a bit of a shock. Obviously, I guess most will have been pinioned, but it comes as a reminder that clearly there is a lot of potential for escapes in the Norfolk countryside. Needless to say, most of these will not be appearing in the final atlas maps...
P.S. Although I take others' comments about Ross's Geese, my gut feeling is that birds clearly arriving with pinks in the autumn and leaving in the spring are probably mostly wild. Perhaps not provable beyond reasonable doubt, but this seems a highly likely species to occur as a wild vagrant.
P.P.S Mega count of Gadwall this morning at Whitlingham - 720! Smashes my previous record. Also the 2 males RC Pochards on the Little Broad. A male "Lesser Scaup" type Aythya hybrid on the Great Broad at the eastern end also. Might be worth a look if you're passing, since I initially named last winter's Greater Scaup there as a hybrid.... It does appear to have a lot of black on the bill type though, and rather too tufty a crown-peak for my liking. Happy to be proved wrong though...
Cheers
Andy
firstreesjohn
Well-known member
Gooses
I seem to recall one of the wintering Snow Geese in county being tracked north to Scotland, accompanying (in flight!) wild geese. This was in the spring, several years ago.
Didn't it then head north-west into the ocean or, possibly, past one of the outlying islands ?
I seem to recall one of the wintering Snow Geese in county being tracked north to Scotland, accompanying (in flight!) wild geese. This was in the spring, several years ago.
Didn't it then head north-west into the ocean or, possibly, past one of the outlying islands ?
The free winged were Ross geese at Pensthorpe between the mid 1980s and about 2005-6. I do not keep written records. These birds wandered widely along the River Wensum Valley frequently being seen by many birdwatchers. I While I was at Pensthorpe they used to go missing for weeks at a time and I frequently saw two Ross geese with the pinks on the coast. Like wise when they returned to Pensthorpe I never saw any sign of Ross Geese in the coastal pink feet flocks. So it is reasonable to presume they were the same birds. In the end they deserted Pensthorpe but they were still present during a number of following winters on the coast , but with no summer sightings. With a run of records of Ross with the pink feet in Northern England during the migration I think it again is reasonable to presume they were the same birds. As for the hybrid as when I first saw it was with in close company of a male Ross goose and a probable female pink foot ( sexed by neck feather patterns and field behaviour ) . The three birds moved together within the flock of pinks so again I think it was reasonable to assume it was a hybrid.
The Ross with a blue plastic ring had nothing to do with Pensthorpe . at least while I worked there. It is a distinct possibility that an odd Ross goose could arrive with our wintering goose flocks , but why it it the majority of records seem to be with pink feet. Pale brents overlap their breeding range and Greenland white fronts breed a lot closer that pink feet. I may well be wrong , but I do not know of any reports with these species , though there has been one with barnacle geese in the Western Isles . That would seem to me to be a more likely candidate for a real wild bird.
I never said all the Norfolk barnacle geese were feral , they are not and wild flocks do turn up regularly. But we also have a fairly large feral flocks in Norfolk\ Suffolk.
As for the 90s Richardson's geese sighting they were probably of the same bird. The Richardson's goose with the Wensum\ Fritton barnacles visited Pensthorpe for at least 10 years during the winter , we never saw it in the summer , but there was one present at Fritton at this time. For some reason the feral barnacles stopped coming to Pensthorpe as a regular wintering flock ( though there were resident barnacle there ) and at this time a Richardson Canada was seen on the coast in company of a small group of barnacles at first , but later with pinkfeet. Given that I saw the bird over 14 years I am not surprised there were 2 records of it on the coast. The earlier record may have been a wild bird , but Mr Jack Williams had a collection at Dilham near Stalham at that time including almost all the races of canadas that was sold off up at this time and there were a few free winged birds in the collection. An escape from there cannot be discounted.
As for the red breasted goose one turned up with the brents on the coast within 2 days of it going missing. There have been a number of red breasts in the last 20 years about ( 5 at the moment in Suffolk ) at a time when their main likely carrier species ( white fronts ) to England in short stopping. There was a project in Holland back in the 1990s ( I am not sure if it is still going ) where captive bred eggs were being placed in barnacle goose nests in Sweden and I suspect that is the most likely origin of many of the birds rather than from the wild Russian population.
Perhaps i should add i have a little experiance with geese having watched them for 45 years and bred in captivity with the exception of russian brents and a few races of canadas all the worlds species of geese in captivity over 30 years so am very familiar with adult , sex and juvenile plumage variations both in the hand and in the field and ringed a lot of wild birds..
The Ross with a blue plastic ring had nothing to do with Pensthorpe . at least while I worked there. It is a distinct possibility that an odd Ross goose could arrive with our wintering goose flocks , but why it it the majority of records seem to be with pink feet. Pale brents overlap their breeding range and Greenland white fronts breed a lot closer that pink feet. I may well be wrong , but I do not know of any reports with these species , though there has been one with barnacle geese in the Western Isles . That would seem to me to be a more likely candidate for a real wild bird.
I never said all the Norfolk barnacle geese were feral , they are not and wild flocks do turn up regularly. But we also have a fairly large feral flocks in Norfolk\ Suffolk.
As for the 90s Richardson's geese sighting they were probably of the same bird. The Richardson's goose with the Wensum\ Fritton barnacles visited Pensthorpe for at least 10 years during the winter , we never saw it in the summer , but there was one present at Fritton at this time. For some reason the feral barnacles stopped coming to Pensthorpe as a regular wintering flock ( though there were resident barnacle there ) and at this time a Richardson Canada was seen on the coast in company of a small group of barnacles at first , but later with pinkfeet. Given that I saw the bird over 14 years I am not surprised there were 2 records of it on the coast. The earlier record may have been a wild bird , but Mr Jack Williams had a collection at Dilham near Stalham at that time including almost all the races of canadas that was sold off up at this time and there were a few free winged birds in the collection. An escape from there cannot be discounted.
As for the red breasted goose one turned up with the brents on the coast within 2 days of it going missing. There have been a number of red breasts in the last 20 years about ( 5 at the moment in Suffolk ) at a time when their main likely carrier species ( white fronts ) to England in short stopping. There was a project in Holland back in the 1990s ( I am not sure if it is still going ) where captive bred eggs were being placed in barnacle goose nests in Sweden and I suspect that is the most likely origin of many of the birds rather than from the wild Russian population.
Perhaps i should add i have a little experiance with geese having watched them for 45 years and bred in captivity with the exception of russian brents and a few races of canadas all the worlds species of geese in captivity over 30 years so am very familiar with adult , sex and juvenile plumage variations both in the hand and in the field and ringed a lot of wild birds..
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Norfolk birders in Spain
Hi all
I have attached a link for a Trip Report by Norfolk birders Jonathan Prochera (with Robert Prochera) of a five day trip to Catalonia from 15th-20th September 2010.
It currently includes a few of my photos, record shots mostly, of Little Bustard, Stone-curlew, waders, etc. with details of other highlights including Great Bustard, Lammergeier, Alpine Chough, Pin-tailed Sandgrouse, Citril Finch, etc.
http://www.surfbirds.com/blog/spainb...+Prochera.html
As always at this time of year I'm chomping at the bit to get over there and see those geese. Hopefully twice this Christmas visit, either side of the new year.
All the best
Hi all
I have attached a link for a Trip Report by Norfolk birders Jonathan Prochera (with Robert Prochera) of a five day trip to Catalonia from 15th-20th September 2010.
It currently includes a few of my photos, record shots mostly, of Little Bustard, Stone-curlew, waders, etc. with details of other highlights including Great Bustard, Lammergeier, Alpine Chough, Pin-tailed Sandgrouse, Citril Finch, etc.
http://www.surfbirds.com/blog/spainb...+Prochera.html
As always at this time of year I'm chomping at the bit to get over there and see those geese. Hopefully twice this Christmas visit, either side of the new year.
All the best
