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ID help, Kruger NP, South Africa (1 Viewer)

jonlowes

jonlowes

Well-known member
The first two pictures below are of the same bird taken at Letaba in the Kruger National Park, South Africa in October 2009. The third is of a bird taken at Crocodile Bridge four days later. When I took the pictures I was of the opinion that they were all Southern Black Flycatchers but having arrived back in the UK & reviewed the pictures the two birds look so different I'm beginning to doubt my initial ID. I have also considered Square–tailed Drongo, but didn't see any suggestion of a red eye on either bird & can't see any on pictures either. Any views or help would be appreciated.
 

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Hi Jon

Surprised no-one's had a go at these yet. I don't have a reference for SA birds with me and am not familiar with the species down there, but to get this going and bump it up the boards I believe you've got...

1. Starling sp.
2. Drongo sp.
3. Flycatcher sp. (Southern Black?)
 
I'm assuming that 1 & 2 are Square-tailed Drongo and 3 is Southern Black Flycatcher. I can't see what else they can be.
 
#s 1 & 2 are Square-tailed Drongo (not sure what's going on with the iris colour though) and #3 is Southern Black Tit.
 
Fork-tailed and Square-tailed Drongos, adult and Juvenile, have a red eye, and a hooked, shrike-like tip to the bill.

Black Cuckoo-shrikes have the typical hooked bill-tip, plus a yellow gape.

Southern Black Tit has white streaking in the wings.

About the only thing left is the Southern Black Flycatcher, which is all-black, dark-eyed, has no hooked bill-tip, no yellow gape, nor any white on the wings.

Dave
 
Mmmmm, I think we all agree that picture three is a Southern Black Flycatcher, but I'm still not 100% content with the first two being Square-tailed Drongo. This mainly because of the lack of a red eye (which on every photo I have seen is fairly prominent), the bill shape (I think someone mentioned that they have a hooked tip) and their range within Kruger. Based on the limited research I've managed online, Letaba camp seems to be out of range for them within Kruger.
 
I seem to remember reading somewhere that the younger birds had darker eyes which is why I was thinking Drongo. Having had another look, I wonder if Black Cuckoo Shrike (black-shouldered form) is a possibility. I remember this species from Kenya and how sometimes you couldn't see the yellow gape line at all. Just a thought.
 
1 & 2 Southern Black Flycatcher

3 looks more tit-like, but with the Southern Black Tit there should be some white visible. Unsure

Allan
 
I'm probably sticking my head WAY out here but to me I think all three are Southern Black F/C and agreed, no drongos in these shots.

On the 3rd pic the bird looks 'small' (which might be due to the perch dominating the shot and creating the illusion that the bird is 'smaller')but I think the bill shape pulls it through for Southern Black F/C.

Just my humble opinion.
 
OK, hands up. In my first response, in order to bump the post up the boards, I shot from the hip with just a cursory look at the pics - didn't even notice pics 1 & 2 were the same bird!! D'oh! :scribe: Since the conundrum is not yet solved, I thought I'd weigh in again...

I would agree with the consensus that 1 & 2 are a Drongo sp. and 3 is a Flycatcher. Look at the shapes of the bill and face. They are clearly different. The bird in pics 1/2 has a face which bulges towards the base of the bill which is feathered, and the upper mandible is more curved than the lower. In 3 the face is neater, the mandibles are equally curved and the overall length of the bill is shorter. That for me clinches that these are a Drongo (despite the lack of red-eye - eye coloration is notoriously variable) and a Flycatcher.

The latter looks similar to NBF so I presume it's a SBF. But which Drongo? On the basis of the apparently pale remiges on the underwing (pic 2), I'd suggest this is a FTD.
 
the first two birds are way to big to be flycatchers,square tailed drongo's have the red eye from juvenile stage.
can only be fork tailed drongo for 1 and 2.
 
It is quite reasuring to see that there are so many different opinions. I pondered over the pictures for quite some time before posting them as I thought I must be able to put a name to them researching from field guides & online, but this just added to my confusion. The one thing that I have recently found, based on the limited information online, is that Lebata (where the first two pictures were taken) would appear to be out of range for Square-tailed Drongo in the Kruger NP. It appears that they are only found in the very south of the park. I don't know if anyone with local knowledge can confirm this?
 
hi
i took the liberty of posting the pic on www.simplybirding.com.this site is used extensively by south africans to id problem birds.we have a few awesome experts who are great in this deptartment.the birds have been positively identified as southern black flycatchers by our experts.
 
artsplash said:
hi
i took the liberty of posting the pic on www.simplybirding.com.this site is used extensively by south africans to id problem birds.we have a few awesome experts who are great in this deptartment.the birds have been positively identified as southern black flycatchers by our experts.
Click to expand...

"the pic" . . . meaning one of the three? Which one? I would still argue that the bird in pic 3 is structurally different to the bird in pics 1 & 2 for the aforementioned reasons.
 
gambirder said:
"the pic" . . . meaning one of the three? Which one? I would still argue that the bird in pic 3 is structurally different to the bird in pics 1 & 2 for the aforementioned reasons.
Click to expand...
I'd agree with that. The third bird surely can't be the same as bird 1&2.
 
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