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UK - Help Please - Have you seen one of these ? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter changer400
- Start date
Really??!!
Whilst I fondly remember the classic "Little Auk in Devon????" thread, which I think was a plant (and I hope everyone fondly celebrated Murrelet day yesterday
), has a real rare ever been found through these forums? Every "I don't know what this common bird is" thread that I've looked at does, indeed, show a Chaffinch/Wren/Blackbird etc...Would love to read an old Chaffinch/Blackpoll thread from the archives, though!!
To me, though, I think the crux of this thread, which is a laugh and letting off steam, is that some posters simply can't be bothered to try and work out what they've photographed, and then expect others to be bothered to sort it out for them. The good news, boy & girls, is that there are sufficient people on the forums who are prepared to make the effort they are not, but it is nice once in a while to have a laugh about it.
And, as I've raised before, I totally agree that splitting "I'm not a birder and want to know what this is" from "I'm learning/experienced and am stuck". It got battered away last time, though, but it is interesting to see this is exactly how Surfbirds have set up their new forums...
B
PS - Cheers for the Terek comments Rob, and well done to Shah for working it though. You should also check out some of John Fordham's current threads from the US, where he's having a real good bash to sort out his ID's, which help, esp from Jane... Which brings us full circle
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Jane Turner
Well-known member
BobTag; said:
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=42986&highlight=blackpoll
There you go! Read it and weep!
Jane Turner
Well-known member
There was the Greek - "is this a Ruff, no its a Pectoral Sand" and second for Greece just this autumn too.
I'd forgotten about that one - it was me who ID'd it as a Pec when others were suggesting Sharp-tailed B
OK, fair play on the Blackpoll thread - classic!!!
Jane Turner
Well-known member
SOmewhere there is a collected thread of "found on BF"
I might seek it out later.
I might seek it out later.
lockbreeze926
Well-known member
Hah - typical splitter, always keen to inflate those lists!
Chris Benesh
So much work, so little time...so let's go birding
Agreed to a lot of points, and the reason that I started this thread,(Aside from abject frustration! ) was not to alienate anybody or not let anyone play! but to highlight the fact that there are primarily 3 types of posts happening here - Absolute beginners or indeed photographers who literally have no idea and no inclination to investigate what they have seen (and quite rightly so in some cases), People that have visited foreign climes and have no idea what bird a is etc, and lastly tricky ID situations from Birders who have already had a genuine stab at an ID.
I am happy for 2 and 3 to co exist , but when you are getting Joe Bloggs from London asking for an ID of a Blackbird , then a Wren , then a Dunnock , you have to wonder if there is any point in his posting , especially when he says " I cant find this in any book" Where is he looking ??? A dictionary!
I propose that the ID Forum gets split into a minimum of two sub categories (possibly three)
1) I have little Idea about birds, but would like someone to tell me what this is
2) Birds I took on my Holidays - local experts please
3) Experienced and tricky ID conundrums
You can then choose as to where your true destiny lies
I can see where you are coming from. Many of us birders who spend a lot of time searching out rare or new birds and seeking to identify them see a natural progression in the evolution of what it means to be a birder. Specifically, we get better and better at sorting out the trickier identifications, perhaps to the point where we know how best to sort out most of them and which ones can't be sorted out at all. We pride ourselves on what we know and our abilities to avoid as many pitfalls as possible. The reality is though, for a vast number of birders, the need to identify everything and continually improve their birding skills is not part of their birding experience. Sure, they might like to see new things and know what they are, but they're more excited about seeing a new behavior, enjoying the color of a Vermilion Flycatcher, or seeing an exciting Great Blue Heron. It may be all about getting that great photograph, getting a wonderful video or sound recording, or perhaps discovering a new nest, whatever. It may be the simple pleasure of being outdoors and getting away from the stresses of life. As a guide, I travel with lots of clients of varying identification skills. A few of them might be considered perpetual beginners even though they own field guides and regularly ask good questions. But that doesn't stop them from having a great time out birding - yes birding. Warning: the following statement is blasphemous. Somewhere in this thread, comments were made about how incredulous it was that birders were counting birds that had been identified for them on birdforum. I would never be able to count something like that myself. But not everyone is like me. Folks will count whatever they want, whether it be the number of yellow cars they see on their way to work, the number of pies they ate in a week, or the number of bird species they've photographed. They're not in competition with ID oriented twitchers, nor are they working on a competitive country list. So should it really bug us what they count?
The biggest drawback to splitting the forum, in my mind, is that there is a continuum between complete novice and whomever the most skilled birder on Earth is. Even among experts, there are strengths and weaknesses, depending on experience, book knowledge, and interest. Where do we draw the lines? Is separating Song from Savannah sparrow a challenge? What about telling a pewee from a phoebe, or an Empidonax from a pewee (sorry John
)? Not for a lot birders I know, yet clearly it is for many who own field guides, based on the number of posts struggling with these (even skilled birders like John :t. What about Meadow vs Tree pipit? Stonechat vs Whinchat? These are birds that a lot of folks struggle with sorting out, yet there is no doubt a contingent of European birders for which these are "no brainers." What if Killian Mullarney and David Sibley set the bar for us? :eek!: Would we all be relegated to the "I have little Idea about birds, but would like someone to tell me what this is" category because we can't consistently differentiate between argentatus and smithsonianus Herring Gulls, or because we can't consistently tell the difference between a Least Flycatcher and an Alder Flycatcher? As a challenge, grab a field guide to a part of the world you have never been, then find a post in the ID forum from that region. Use the field guide to try to sort out the ID. Depending on how much you know already about bird families, it can be a little tricky knowing where to begin to find that bird in the book. Okay, enough of my hyperbole. I think everyone could stand to lighten up a bit. It really boils down to the fact that I like teaching folks about birds and have infinite patience when it comes to perpetual beginners. Not that I might not roll my eyes at times...but I like looking at great pictures of birds, coming across threads with birds I find personally challenging, and perhaps most of all, helping out others. Dividing up the forum would make it that much harder for me to keep up on the threads. It would also create an unnecessary "us versus them" mentality. "When have I learned enough that I can start posting in the real birder category?" It seems simpler to just ignore the ones that seem trivial or irrelevant.
If I were going to propose any changes to the forum, I would encourage more posts that are really informative, even if the poster knows the answer ahead of time. I'm not talking about quizzes with blurry shots or pieces of birds, but clear images that further our understanding of a particular identification topic.
Chris
Oblio
What's The Point?
Meet Dwight
Hey Everyone,
Check out this thread as a classic example of what positive impact the ID Q&A forum can make. Birder or non-birder? A birder in my book.
Oblio
Hey Everyone,
Check out this thread as a classic example of what positive impact the ID Q&A forum can make. Birder or non-birder? A birder in my book.
Oblio
Colin
Axeman (Retired)
My friend has a black dog which is going grey cos it's old and is of known age, thus this bird which is going grey must be old as well and therefore will be the same age as my friends dog.
Oh well, I never did follow this thread.
What's this?
Good examples of this years beginner birders snaps in CT:
Smith's Longspur - 3rd state record - first since 1982.
Wilson's Plover - 20th state record - first since 1989 for this declining species.
The same guy who had the Longspur had also taken pics of two 'Laughing Gulls' which my friend, thinking it was a little early for Laughers, asked to look at - it turned out to be two Black-headed Gulls - a couple of nice rarities. With the access most people have to digital cameras now it's almost a surprise that more Blackpoll Warbler type threads don't show up on Birdforum.
Luke
Good examples of this years beginner birders snaps in CT:
Smith's Longspur - 3rd state record - first since 1982.
Wilson's Plover - 20th state record - first since 1989 for this declining species.
The same guy who had the Longspur had also taken pics of two 'Laughing Gulls' which my friend, thinking it was a little early for Laughers, asked to look at - it turned out to be two Black-headed Gulls - a couple of nice rarities. With the access most people have to digital cameras now it's almost a surprise that more Blackpoll Warbler type threads don't show up on Birdforum.
Luke
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changer400
I asked for a car, I got a computer. How's that fo
I thank you
For me its all about the wording ( and to answer Janes Earlier posting first - I think 80% of people who regularly answer the common birds will still continue to do so in a separate forum - just not Me , and a few other less tolerant peeps on here
) If we had a "What is this Bird" Forum and we had "Advanced ID Problems - we would filter 80 - 90% straight away into straightforward ID Queries which if the mood took us , most experienced birders could answer , whilst the 60% or so on here who cared about Primary Steps etc could feel right at home in the Advanced Section - for those that cross over - a 10 second redirect and we are all good !!! Mods, any comments please ???
Si
Guess the US and UK definitions of "birder" must differ...
However, this is ANOTHER example of "I'm a photographer/dude/beginner and I just want to know what this common bird is", which has a TOTALLY different audience to "Is this dark Snipe in the variation of gallinago or could it be delicata".
Come on BF, do the right thing and split the forums!!
Simon, I'd like to add a category if I may. There's the type of posts where there is a link to the Photographers website or blog or Flickr account. These people post the same question on as many websites as possible purely for the purpose of attracting visitors.
A case in point.
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=95585&highlight=bohinski
B
Mike
I thank you
For me its all about the wording ( and to answer Janes Earlier posting first - I think 80% of people who regularly answer the common birds will still continue to do so in a separate forum - just not Me , and a few other less tolerant peeps on here
Mods, any comments please ???
Si
If we had different forums would you never look in the "What is this bird Forum"?
If you did look in there then what is the point?
If you didnt look then you could be missing out on the Chaffinch that is actually something rare.
Must admit I wouldn't - sounds a lot more efficient to me
Let's not forget, Jane showed us just two examples of this. There have been c.14,500 threads in the Q&A section. And anyway, Jane reads them all to index them! So, I reckon we're covered...
Anyway, good to see you joining in the debate tired_boy; thought you wanted the thread closing?
Jane Turner
Well-known member
BobTag; said:Must admit I wouldn't - sounds a lot more efficient to me
Let's not forget, Jane showed us just two examples of this. There have been c.14,500 threads in the Q&A section. And anyway, Jane reads them all to index them! So, I reckon we're covered...
Anyway, good to see you joining in the debate tired_boy; thought you wanted the thread closing?
er actually I indexed them about 2 years ago - I only see about 1/5th of the threads these days and there are many more than two examples - I just gave you two.
Personally I can't see the point in splitting (mind you I was always a lumper) I can see a point in the original poster, where they are a more experienced birder, being more specific in the title of their threads. Help I'm stuck on an abberant large pipit.... as opposed to what is this? Or what happened to the grey tongue on this apparent micahellis....
I do sometimes bring myself to edit titles so the people who can't be arsed wading through domestic wildfowl know there is something challenging. Like an unidentified potentially new for science job... which reminds me, whatever happened to that Japanese warbler type thing.
I thought it was last seen in Manchester's China Town
Apologies Jane, I though I'd read a comment you'd made about reading all the threads to index them. Must have got that wrong, sorry.
On the other hand, there are guidelines about what to put in the title of a post already, it's just that people don't follow them...
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