Finch, Falcon and Warbler IDs (1 Viewer)

Neil Grubb · Aug 21, 2005

My brother and I would appreciate some help / confirmation of ID on a couple of birds we saw at Barn's Ness, East Lothian (Scotland). Knowing that the best way to learn is by making mistakes, we're going to stick our necks out and put our own IDs for the first two birds here:

(i) the finch (2 pics) - colours look strange, especially the reddish upper back / neck, but our guess is a moulting / Africana type Chaffinch.
(ii) the warbler. This was sighted when we were looking for a Reed Warbler that had been spotted at Barn's Ness. We were struck by how red it looks. (We know it's not a Reed Warbler!) Our guess is simply Whitethroat, but the colour looks much redder than in any of my books / photo guides.

(iii) Later in the day I photographed this bird of prey at Vane Farm, Fife. It looks falcon shaped, and didn't call. The photos aren't very good as I had the exposure wrong and it was silhouetted against a bright sky. My guess is that it's just a Kestrel but the tail looks a bit short to me.

So, can anyone help please ?!!

Andrew Rowlands · Aug 21, 2005

Hi Neil and brother :t:,

First bird does seem to be just an odd(ish) Chaffinch; the second is a Sylvia, it probably is a Whitethroat at a guess; the falcon is too big for Kestrel, as you say - the tail's too short, it's showing a black facial mask against a white throat and seems to be quite broad across the body - looks 'powerful' - does that help you to pin it down yet

?

Andy.

Motmot · Aug 21, 2005

1 Chaffinch
2 Whitethroat
3 Hobby

EDIT: if not Kestrel sized it has to be a Peregrine, commoner in the UK I guess

Neil Grubb · Aug 21, 2005

Andrew Rowlands said:
the falcon is too big for Kestrel, as you say - the tail's too short, it's showing a black facial mask against a white throat and seems to be quite broad across the body - looks 'powerful' - does that help you to pin it down yet ?

Andy.

I got it, I got it! Eleonora's Falcon. Quick, call birdline, get the pagers going!!

If I'm wrong and this is a Peregrine then it's the first time I've seen one! (incidentally, this bird I saw on my own, so the failed ID cannot be blamed on my brother!!)

Neil

Gaz Shilton · Aug 21, 2005

I agree:Chaffinch,Whitethroat, Hobby

Gaz Shilton · Aug 21, 2005

Don't know how that crazy face got there. Apologies...

Neil Grubb · Aug 21, 2005

Gaz Shilton said:
I agree:Chaffinch,Whitethroat, Hobby

Hobby would be unlikely in Scotland, though not impossible. Given the heavy hints from Andrew I'd go for Peregrine now!

JANJ · Aug 21, 2005

Hi Niel!
The chaffinch is an ordinary one, africana looks more like this:http://www.warbler.phytoconsult.nl/afr_chaff.htm.
Whitethroat it is, they are sometimes rufous like this, and there is a long primary projection.
Falcon looks like Peregrine.
JanJ

Julian Sykes Wildlife · Aug 22, 2005

Agree with Andrew & Jan
Incidentally Vane is a very good place to see Hobby in late August/September there was at least one bird there per year when I lived in Kinross. Most were along the minor road leaving Kinross towards Vane Farm although usually only one day jobs.

Motmot · Aug 22, 2005

Jules Sykes said:
Agree with Adam & Jan
Incidentally Vane is a very good place to see Hobby in late August/September there was at least one bird there per year when I lived in Kinross. Most were along the minor road leaving Kinross towards Vane Farm although usually only one day jobs.

That sounds great for Hobby! The bird in the pic shows fairly thin and longish wings and short tail with a bit longer central rectrices, all good for Hobby. Maybe it´s a thin male Peregrine, but shape looks much better for Hobby imo.

Kentbloke · Aug 22, 2005

Chaffinch, Whitethroat and Peregrine. Hobby is a much slimmer bird compared to the muscular Peregrine.
http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/54364/sort/1/cat/527/page/

Neil Grubb · Aug 22, 2005

Peregrine vs Hobby

Okay, we seem to have a Peregrine versus Hobby debate here. Based on earlier comments and on geography my money would still be on Peregrine, accepting Jules' point that Hobby do appear annually at Vane. However I wouldn't know a Hobby even if it flashed its red trousers at me, so I'd value any further views in light of these pics. I have used Photoshop to maximise the contrast. This gives the images a rather artificial look but the originals were virtually black sillhouettes (the ones I posted earlier were after a modest degree of manipulation). Are these of any help in making the distinction ?

Neil

Steven Astley · Aug 22, 2005

Its definitely a peregrine too powerful looking for a hobby

Kentbloke · Aug 22, 2005

Hi Neil, down here on the East Kent coast, I'm lucky enough to see Peregrines every day and Hobbies are common during the season - though less predictable! Peregrines are unmistakeable - they give the impression of immense power and look 'muscle bound'. In your pics note the head/body shape and compare to Hobby. Hobbies do appear in Scotland but are scarcer so your chances of seeing one are reduced. However, the phrase "once seen - never forgotten" will apply! A much more aerobatic, compact, contrasty and somewhat smaller bird than the peregrine. Checkout the excellent gallery on this forum to get a feel for the difference.

Gaz Shilton · Aug 22, 2005

Yeah, second lot of pics.....Peregrine.

Motmot · Aug 22, 2005

Peregrine

Jane Turner · Aug 23, 2005

Its a moulting male Peregrine... now why is another matter... for me the most tangible structural difference is the wing-base. Though Hobby is a very short-tailed bird, the tail is still noticebly longer than the width of the wing-base. On Peregrine the tail is about the same width as the wing-base.

Keith Reeder · Aug 23, 2005

Peregrine from here too...

Jane Turner · Aug 23, 2005

Here - I had a few mins to myself this evening. A row of Hobbys (upper)and Peregrines showing the wingbase width to back end lemgth ratios. Also notice the wing-base to wing length ratio. Oh and is it Hobbies or Hobbys?

Neil Grubb · Aug 24, 2005

Jane Turner said:
Here - I had a few mins to myself this evening. A row of Hobbys (upper)and Peregrines showing the wingbase width to back end lemgth ratios. Also notice the wing-base to wing length ratio. Oh and is it Hobbies or Hobbys?

Thanks, these pics are very helpful indeed.

Finch, Falcon and Warbler IDs (1 Viewer)

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