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Pipit for discussion (1 Viewer)

Mine have all gone!

I'm down to four birds - including my old friend who is looking quite smart at the mo. Ever seen an eye ring like this?
 

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There are pics of one at Dungeness on the Obs recent sightings page that look like the brightest one I saw in Cumbria last week. When I checked my notes the super on the one pictured (badly) on here had a less striking super than that bird.

Stephen.
 
Darrell Clegg said:
Mine have all gone!

I'm down to four birds - including my old friend who is looking quite smart at the mo. Ever seen an eye ring like this?

and finally.. finally we see that there is no white in the outer web of the second outermost tail feather
 
Both my field guides show spinoletta with a supercilium that tapers at the rear, while on littoralis it's squared off. Pipit experts, how often does this hold true in your experience?

James
 
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I must say, that all my photos of littoralis show a tapered end to the super', certainly not as squared-off as the one Jane has illustrated. Perhaps it's just another variable.
 
One thing that we should mention is that the 'strength' and shape of a bird's super changes depending on the angle of viewing. i.e. if the bird is in 'full profile' then the super tends to lose intensity and become more tapered at the rear, whereas if the bird is even slightly looking toward the viewer then the super becomes whiter/more obvious and and also becomes squarer-ended.
 
To see what I mean compare these two shots of the same bird.
 

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Thanks, pipiteers.

Seems to me that in both forms the supercilium often looks neither tapered nor squared off but just...messy.

James
 
CJW said:
One thing that we should mention is that the 'strength' and shape of a bird's super changes depending on the angle of viewing. i.e. if the bird is in 'full profile' then the super tends to lose intensity and become more tapered at the rear, whereas if the bird is even slightly looking toward the viewer then the super becomes whiter/more obvious and and also becomes squarer-ended.

And also with what the bird is doing - head hunched down, or stretched up, will make a lot of difference
 
On the subject of the identifiability of spinoletta v's littoralis, I sit on a local rarities committee in the Midlands, where the picture might superficially be clearer. One would think that in middle England, spinoletta (spin from now on)would be regular in spring, whilst petrosus/littoralis (pet/lit) would be less common, being supposedly a coastal bird.

This is not, however, the case. There are hundreds of records of "Rock pipit" in the last 30 years, averaging about 10-15 per annum. Spin however, has averaged 4-6 records, of 6-20 birds, in the last ten years. Given that all of the Rocks are most likely to be litts, this may suddenly throw into doubt some of the spin records.

Unfortunately, because these species are so regular, they are not description species. I am hopefully setting up a plan to make them so - perhaps just for spring birds.

From a local point of view, perosnally I would think a pipit of this group in a flock in early spring in the would be a spin, with litt as an afterthought. This view, I think, has to change, and give equal credence to both before reaching an i.d.

I am almost doubting number of my own past records, having seen the variation within litt at this time of year.

If we think how common pets/litts are around the coast in winter, compared to the number of spins, then the assumption would be that they occur in the midlands at a much higher ratio than the records suggest.

Other thoughts from non-coastal counties would be welcome.

Sean
 
Hi Sean,
Speaking from an Irish perspective, Water Pipit has long been traditionally thought of as a rarity (indeed, it was only in the 1985-86 winter that we got our second(?) record, though there have been a fair few more since then), as has littoralis Rock (indeed, I have only seen 1-2 Rock Pipits that I felt may have been of this form, as against 3-4 Water Pipits!). However, even here things aren't necessarily straightforward: seem to recall an accepted record of 5(?) Water Pipits together somewhere in Co.Louth at a headland in spring...seems a little strange, though I am sure that they probably were Water Pipits if accepted.
The problem now is that neither Water Pipit nor littoralis Rock requires a description here following their 'demotion' to Appendix 2 rarities, though I am sure that care will still be taken with the identification of such birds.
Harry
 
Ghostly Vision said:
One would think that in middle England, spinoletta (spin from now on)would be regular in spring, whilst petrosus/littoralis (pet/lit) would be less common, being supposedly a coastal bird.

This is not, however, the case. There are hundreds of records of "Rock pipit"

Seems reasonable - if there's so many littoralis wintering in IoM, Lancs, Cheshire, etc., it stands to reason they have to cross England overland to get there. I don't think they'd be so 'foolish' as to go the long way round along the coast via either northwest Scotland, or Cornwall.

I wonder if many go through the Tyne Gap too? - probably yes, but because it is a narrow crossing, they may not need to stop to feed up. Maybe a good candidate for a Vis Mig watch in the next few weeks?
 
Nutcracker said:
Seems reasonable - if there's so many littoralis wintering in IoM, Lancs, Cheshire, etc., it stands to reason they have to cross England overland to get there. I don't think they'd be so 'foolish' as to go the long way round along the coast via either northwest Scotland, or Cornwall.

I wonder if many go through the Tyne Gap too? - probably yes, but because it is a narrow crossing, they may not need to stop to feed up. Maybe a good candidate for a Vis Mig watch in the next few weeks?


Crikey - we'll let Chris W or Stephen D sort 'em out in flight shall we??

GV
 
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