Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
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Lady Iriana Widodo's Rote Myzomela (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Björn Bergenholtz
- Start date
Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
Today's updated HBW Alive Key:
... ??
mb1848
Well-known member
I think Lady is not the proper term. Officially there is no royalty in Indonesia but many sultans and princes continue to exist. Lady in English means a woman of superior social position, especially one of noble birth. She is THE First Lady of the Republic of Indonesia because of her husband having been elected President I'm sure she is a lady but not a Lady. I only recognise one royal in the republic of the United States, Elvis Presley.
Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
Mark, if the First Lady (of any country) isn't a "superior social position", what is? 
I call the newly described Myzomela simply Rota Myzomela Myzomela irianawidodoae, without the lady (woman, Mrs, etc., etc.) in question (in the Common name). As the describers recommended.
Either way; I assume you won't have any objections regarding the Spider Paradonea presleyi MILLER et al 2012. You can call it King Presley's Spider, sure, why not ... if you feel like it.
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I call the newly described Myzomela simply Rota Myzomela Myzomela irianawidodoae, without the lady (woman, Mrs, etc., etc.) in question (in the Common name). As the describers recommended.
Either way; I assume you won't have any objections regarding the Spider Paradonea presleyi MILLER et al 2012. You can call it King Presley's Spider, sure, why not ... if you feel like it.
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Paul Clapham
Well-known member
Her English Wikipedia page uses "Iriana Joko Widodo" as its title. It suggests that her name before marriage was simply "Iriana".
Now, the Bahasa Indonesia equivalent of that page is entitled simply "Iriana" and seems to say that she is also known as "Iriana Joko Widodo". That's based on my complete lack of knowledge of Bahasa Indonesia and the services of Google Translate.
So I'd say the Key is not out of line there.
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Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
I find it very hard to believe her second name is the same as her husbands first ...
If so this must be a case similar to the old tradition (out-dated in Sweden) when female persons were mentioned simply as (for example): Mrs Paul Clapham ... or Mrs Björn Bergenholtz. A bit too diminishing, or depreciatory for my taste.
In my notes she will stay simply Iriana Widodo. Until proven wrong.
Cheers!
If so this must be a case similar to the old tradition (out-dated in Sweden) when female persons were mentioned simply as (for example): Mrs Paul Clapham ... or Mrs Björn Bergenholtz. A bit too diminishing, or depreciatory for my taste.
In my notes she will stay simply Iriana Widodo. Until proven wrong.
Cheers!
l_raty
laurent raty
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_names
She's probably indeed just named Iriana, without a family name, as on her Bahasa Indonesia Wikipedia page.
Her husband [Joko Widodo], on the other hand, was born Mulyono (no family name), from parents named Noto Miharjo (father, no family name) and Sujiatmi (mother, no family name); he later changed this name for Joko Widodo, in which Widodo still does not appear to act as a family name (e.g., none of their children -- Gibran Rakabuming Raka, Kahiyang Ayu, and Kaesang Pangarep -- is bearing this name).
The above makes any comparison with what is done here quite difficult, I feel...
(To James -- If I may: in the current wording of the Key account -- "wife of President Joko Widodo (2014 to date)" -- it is not really clear whether the "2014 to date" applies to she having been his wife, or he having been President... [The latter is correct; they have been married since 1986.] Couldn't the ambiguity be removed by rephrasing?)
She's probably indeed just named Iriana, without a family name, as on her Bahasa Indonesia Wikipedia page.
Her husband [Joko Widodo], on the other hand, was born Mulyono (no family name), from parents named Noto Miharjo (father, no family name) and Sujiatmi (mother, no family name); he later changed this name for Joko Widodo, in which Widodo still does not appear to act as a family name (e.g., none of their children -- Gibran Rakabuming Raka, Kahiyang Ayu, and Kaesang Pangarep -- is bearing this name).
The above makes any comparison with what is done here quite difficult, I feel...
(To James -- If I may: in the current wording of the Key account -- "wife of President Joko Widodo (2014 to date)" -- it is not really clear whether the "2014 to date" applies to she having been his wife, or he having been President... [The latter is correct; they have been married since 1986.] Couldn't the ambiguity be removed by rephrasing?)
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Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
I was thinking of another angle, regarding the same phrase, James. Isn't the "to date"-phrase a bit complicated to use in an Alive Key ... as you thereby is somewhat forced to follow Indonesian politics/elections! Or did you plan to!?
Why make things more difficult than necessary?
Either way he assumed office 20 October 2014 (with Iriana by his side), for a 5-year term ...
Cheers!
Björn
James Jobling
Well-known member
Too much Bristol Cream sherry and Cloudy Bay SB over Christmas and the New Year. I have altered the position of "(2014 to date)"; if spared I shall amend it in 2019! So much to do.....
Editing the Key and providing quotations (name, type species, etymology) from every original diagnosis is progressing well. I have got as far as Tephrodiglossa (but easily get waylaid by BF threads and further reading). If you come across any genera (before T) with original details missing it means I have not yet verified or seen the diagnosis (the papers of Boetticher and Wolters come to mind!)
An eventful and prosperous 2018, harmony and charity to all readers.
Editing the Key and providing quotations (name, type species, etymology) from every original diagnosis is progressing well. I have got as far as Tephrodiglossa (but easily get waylaid by BF threads and further reading). If you come across any genera (before T) with original details missing it means I have not yet verified or seen the diagnosis (the papers of Boetticher and Wolters come to mind!)
An eventful and prosperous 2018, harmony and charity to all readers.
mb1848
Well-known member
Re the papers of Boettinger. I see in the Key you had not seen the subgenus Philippinetta Boettinger for Anas luzonica Fraser in FESTSCHRIFT OF PROFESSOR EMBRIK STRAND III 9/11/1937 page 585.
https://books.google.com/books?id=qw0cAAAAMAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=585 .
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jjo1915/11/51-52/11_51-52_61/_pdf .
Is this enough?
https://books.google.com/books?id=qw0cAAAAMAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=585 .
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jjo1915/11/51-52/11_51-52_61/_pdf .
Is this enough?
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James Jobling
Well-known member
Many thanks, Mark - another Christmas present! Philippinetta over and out, as our dear friend Calalp would say!
Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
l_raty
laurent raty
This being a commentary on [this] (where Hoplopterus was used).
No diagnosis, no expressed intent to establish anything new. Seems unlikely to be intended as a subgenus of Hoplopterus, as the only included species is the type of the latter. Thus presumably intended as an alternative generic placement for the species.
For me a mere typo for Vanellus.
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Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
Back to irianawidodoae ...
In spite of the OD's out-spoken dedication: We are pleased to name this species after Iriana Widodo, ... (in full, see Post #1)... I have altered my notes of her into simply:
= Iriana (born 1963) a k a Iriana Widodo, wife of President Joko Widodo [President of Indonesia (2014- )], etc., etc. ...
For what it´s worth.
Björn
PS. If (more like when) this bird finds its way into the Swedish list I sure hope it will be called something similar to the English Common name Rote Myzomela (after Rote Island, in eastern Indonesia). Either way; in my notes (and MS) she will be no Joko (... no joke)
--
In spite of the OD's out-spoken dedication: We are pleased to name this species after Iriana Widodo, ... (in full, see Post #1)... I have altered my notes of her into simply:
= Iriana (born 1963) a k a Iriana Widodo, wife of President Joko Widodo [President of Indonesia (2014- )], etc., etc. ...
For what it´s worth.
Björn
PS. If (more like when) this bird finds its way into the Swedish list I sure hope it will be called something similar to the English Common name Rote Myzomela (after Rote Island, in eastern Indonesia). Either way; in my notes (and MS) she will be no Joko (... no joke)
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