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Alpen Wings ED vs Minox BL 10 x 44 comfort bridge? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter raptorbfl
- Start date
lilcrazy2
Well-known member
Wouldn't it have been much easier to just go to the Alpen website and as any idiot could read, see that they started in 1997? And what is it exactly that you feel they do so differently from the vast majority of non alpha bino companies like ZenRay, Vortex, Bushnell, Eagle Optics, etc?
My testing methodolgy suits me just fine. And I'll even let you call me superman for short. Sadly, I don't need a rocket scientist or an optical engineer to tell me which bino to me has better control of CA, or has better contrast and resolution, or a wider sweetspot, or is brighter at dusk and dawn, or has more pincushion or field curvature, or has better edge/edge sharpness. I can tell these things in a couple of days at most, as after all as unsophisticated as I am, I do have resolution test charts/areas, contrast test areas, CA test areas, and a BIG yardstick. Just one of my contrast test areas consists of a dozen white wing dove decoys which I have added additional colored paints too, as well as 6 brightly colored mexican parrots. These are clipped to branches in my natural area from the edges in sunshine to about 20 ft in for the dark shade. Whats yours look like?
If you read some of my other posts you will see that I don't get all orgasmic over the absolute widest FOV, or the bino with the maximum widest edge/edge sharpness. As far as the OEM spec measurements of actual magnification or EP, I'll leave that to Henry Link and others, who are much more qualified than I to report on these things.
And since ignorance is bliss, then I surely must be blessed. And as my Grandpa always said - "when you are arguing with a fool, make sure they are not doing the same thing". So I bid you adieu.
RJM
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
Jerry we may have to start paying more attention to this Alpen brand. I was just browsing the CN bino forum for the first time in months and just read Navy Optical Repair God Bill Cook has nice things to say about the owners of Alpen.
lilcrazy2
Well-known member
Jerry
I don't see anywhere in these posts where I indicated or implied "mine was better than yours". Since I have had 2 pairs of the 8x42 Legend Ultra HD's, I believe the correct interpretation for anyone who can read, would be that I am saying the ones I currently have are better than the ones I used to have IMO.
And wasn't it you, who not too long ago falsely critized me for expousing opinions on binos I had not tried or owned? And then wound up apologizing?
Somehow, you never disappoint.
lilcrazy2
Well-known member
Rick
Some people lead - others follow. Funny how you put so much stock on a 7 year old comment over on CN, but feel I know nothing of which I speak.
I have been conversing with Alpen since January on a variety of bino subjects, and have always found them to be spot on in knowing their product, their competition, and all the factories and competing brands. After I made my short review on the 8x42 Wings ED, I was talking with Tim Gardner on the ABBE# and specific glass composition on the binos, which was in response to a question posed by another member. He emailed me the ABBE#, the specific glass composition of the Wings ED, and a chart showing the various glass compositions of other binos.
Last Friday morning, I received a pair of 8x26 Alpen Shasta Ridge binos I bought off ebay for some further tests on small reverse porros we were discussing in another forum. After being unable to get the eyecups to move with what I considered to be an inordinate amount of force, I called Tim up and asked if there was some trick I was missing. He went down, got a pair off the shelf, and told me they just twist up. I tried again even harder and they still didn't budge. He said he would mail me that pair that afternoon, and for me just to send the others back. After we hung up, I went down and got my jar opener, and figured since he was sending me another pair that I was either going to get the cups up or break them. They finally broke loose and worked just fine afterward. I called him back and told him I got them up and would keep them, and he went down and pulled the replacement pair from shipping.
Not a great testament on that pair of 8x26 Shasta Ridges, although they work fine now. But how many companies do you know that will mail you out the replacements before they get the old ones back?
mooreorless
Well-known member
This thread seems to be turning into a pissing contest. For what it is worth and not trying to pick, but Tom you do come across rude/sarcastic sometimes, having "talked" to you in a PM on here you seem like a decent sort and I think you have a lot to add on here and I like your posts most of the time.The link to Cloudy Nights binocular forum is this months posts not 7 years ago. I have looked at the Alpen series and must have always looked at the top models, I thought they were overpriced like the Brunton series of binocular. One binocular I always thought I would like to get is the Leupold 10x50 WR Olympic series mainly because it is light wt.[25.7oz.]I notice the Alpen 10x50 Teton is similar to this binocular but is heavier [30 oz.] has a wider field and costs about $150 more. So I guess there are differences in what looks like about the same binocular. I will keep Alpen on my list from now on. To the original poster I think I would get the Alpen Wings ED 10x42 at only 21oz. it seems like a nice light wt. binocular, not wide field or anything but something easy to carry hanging from your neck.
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lilcrazy2
Well-known member
Steve
The Alpen website is wrong on the weight of the Wings ED binos, as they actually weigh 24.5 oz. The website listed the regular Wings at 23 oz and the ED model at 21 oz. I pointed this out to Tim and he said he would have it corrected, but that the correct weights are shown in the catalog as 24 oz.
Alpen makes some very good binos, but like most companies they also make some ho-hums. I was impressed with the Teton model I tried, but felt it was heavy and overpriced at the time I tried it last fall. After picking up a pair of 8x42 Apex's, I wound up getting rid of my 8x42 Zen ZRS HD's and some others as I felt the Apex was a better bino IMO. Not a bad performance for a bino that was introduced in 2004 versus the "talk of the forum" Zen introduced in 2010. I also pointed out to Tim at Alpen that I thought the Apex was overpriced compared to the competition that has been introduced in the last 18 months, as the Apex sells for at least $75 more than the Zen, and a whole lot more in other places.
Months ago in response to a members request on info about the Ranier model, I pointed out that in the Allbinos 10x42 test that the 10x42 Ranier was severely downgraded in the CA category, and that if the CA was improved to the slightly below the worst CA score of the alphas, then the Ranier would have ranked ahead on the Leica Ultravid and the Swaro EL, and that since Alpen had introduced a new Ranier ED model, the CA problem should be improved.
As far as coming across as rude and sarcastic at times - you are correct. Sometimes it is somewhat unintentional, and sometimes it is deliberate. It really depends on who and what I am responding to, and how they have responded to me. Sometimes "ignorance is bliss", but at least I know that Alpen is not a no-name bino, and that they are not the house brand for Adorama. And that in addition to Alpen and Bushnell having their binos made in a Chinese factory by 15 year old boys for $2 an hour, I would have to include Nikon, Leupold, Vortex, Vixen, Eagle Optics, Atlas, and virtually every bino brand sold with the exception of about 6 or so. But I think they have had to push the wage rate up recently due to inflation.
Tom
NDhunter
Experienced observer
This thread has wandered and had its fun, but I thought I would try to answer your question on the Nikon Premier. As far as what is an alpha binocular, this may and will get many different different opinions.
"Alpha" means simply among the very best.
In this class will be the top optics, including Leica, Zeiss, Swarovski, and Nikon
is in the class with the EDG and the SE, and some may include the Premier, LXL,
models.
With a budget of $1,000 you have several options, top alpha preowned, also
consider the Nikon Premier, new or refurb. best choice right now on those would
be SWFA or Eagle Optics. These well regarded retailers I am thinking will give you time for a test.
The build quality of the Nikon will last a lifetime, and the great warranty if needed will help you get there.
Jerry
After comparing the Nikon 10 x 32 EDG with the Nikon 10 x 32 LX L (many times), both of which I own, I think that it is fair to move the LX L (now known as Premier) down to a level ranking just below what we call "Alpha." Certainly the SE's still remain "Alphas" and also the EII's.
I would think that this slight demotion would also apply to the 8 x 30 SLC which many people think was comparable to the 8 x 32 LX L. Time will tell where the new model Swarovski 8 x 30 and 10 x 30 should be placed after they get on the market. They will be priced to compete with the Premiers. I think that their less generous FOV as compared to the "Alphas" will be a factor in the consideration.
Bob
I would think that this slight demotion would also apply to the 8 x 30 SLC which many people think was comparable to the 8 x 32 LX L. Time will tell where the new model Swarovski 8 x 30 and 10 x 30 should be placed after they get on the market. They will be priced to compete with the Premiers. I think that their less generous FOV as compared to the "Alphas" will be a factor in the consideration.
Bob
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NDhunter
Experienced observer
I wonder who posted this?
I happen to own one of the 8x36 Bushnell Legend Ultra HD's and found I liked it better than the 8x42 model I had and got rid of, and which you praise so highly. I also find that the 8x42 Alpen Wing ED bino is superior to either the 8x36 or 8x42 Legend Ultra HD. If you can believe Alpens press release, they were the #2 bino seller in the USA in 2009, behind Bushnell, so I wouldn't exactly call them "no name".
I, like many others, have never bought into this bino obsession of having the best and most expensive. Having bought and tested over 70 binos in the last 12 months, as well as having looked thru most of the Alphas, I find my selections suit me just fine. As I said after I bought a pair of new 10x25 Zeiss Victory's and sold them - "perhaps some things are best left to those with more money than sense"
Tom:
I did want to revisit this post, as I do respect your knowledge and opinion.
Some of us may be optics obsessed, and I do find it a fun hobby.
I must admit, I have not looked through a Minox, and I do think I found an
Alpen once, at one place.
I do have to ask you about buying and testing over 70 binos in the past year.
Now, that does mean commitment. A strong credit card, and I am thinking
more than just moments behind the optics counter at the large sporting
goods stores. Testing does take some time, can you tell us more about how
you have accomplished this great task ?
Jerry
lilcrazy2
Well-known member
Jerry
In between some rounds of golf, sporting clays, fishing, hunting, target shooting, hiking, filling up the birdfeeders, bird watching, and bino testing, I find that I still have entirely too much idle time on my hands.
See my response about testing in post #23 of this thread. When I get a new bino it generally only takes a couple of days for me to do the testing that I do and compare them with my current favs, and form my opinions. If a bino piques my interest, I usually stretch this time period out a lot longer, before I decide to keep it, return it, or sell it . I have subjected very few threads to any of my reviews, and I generally don't even comment unless I have experience with the bino being tested.
Contrary to what another member thinks, I don't see anyone on this forum doing an empirical laboratory test on any binos, with the exception of maybe Henry and a very few others. Most reviews I have seen on the forums are somewhat subjective based on the reviewers comparisons, field testing, and optical and mechanical observations, as are mine. I thank all the knowledgeable BF members, and all the years of posts, who have allowed me to accumulate all the optical knowledge that I think I possess. I got the idea for the dove decoy/parrot contrast test area back in the fall from a series of PM's I was having with another member who was disappointed about some Minox HG binos not having as much contrast looking into deep shade. Many of my other test setups are compliments of Henry and some other forum members.
I seem to have a mild bino obsession and enjoy comparing many different binos for my own satisfaction, and the endless quest for the " best in class". When I first joined this forum about a year ago, I owned an 8x32 and 9x25 Bushnell Legend, and I was interested in upgrading. For a couple of months prior to, and after joining, I read every article I could find on this forum and others, not just on different binos, but also on testing, optical characteristics, and observations. I even found that after my own testing, that I did not completely agree with the observations of some others. In the beginning, I had trouble getting much of any real reponse for binos that held my interest at that time, so, I just decided that the best way to get information was to buy them and try them on my own. So the buying and selling began. I have also made 2 dedicated trips to NYC for the sole purpose of testing binos, not just the alphas, but others that I knew I would not buy, and some I knew I might.
I made myself 2 promises when I joined this forum:
1. I would never buy an "alpha" as I thought they were unnecessary and totally overpriced IMO.
2. I would never spend more than $400 -$500 on any bino.
The endless debate about Alpha binos always makes me think back to when cassette decks were the rage, and if you didn't have a Nakamichi "Dragon" tape deck, then you obviously didn't know anything about "real music" or "Hi Fi".
While I have bought an Nikon 8x30EII, Nikon 8x20 Premier HGL, Zeiss Victory 10x25, some Leupold Gold Rings, and a few Nikon 7x35 & 8x30 & 10x35 E's, I have pretty much stuck to my guns. You will notice that I don't stick my nose or opinions in on the "Alpha" threads, except I did post somewhere that I wasn't particularly impressed with the little 10x25 Zeiss Victory B*T*P.
As far as 70 binos, its actually more, and these are ones I have actually owned and paid for. I would be glad to post you a complete list, or if you want to send me $100, I would be more than happy to furnish you with a copy of my Ebay history, as well as redacted copies of statements showing my purchases from CLNY, BHP, Adorama, OpticsPlanet, Amazon, CDNN Sports, Sportsmans Guide, Bob Wards, Wholesale Sports, Bushnell and a couple of others. Funny how I've never bought anything from Eagle Optics or SWFA.
Since it appears that you have a great concern on my testing criteria and time, if you have any suggestions on testing, I would certainly welcome and entertain your comments.
Tom
mooreorless
Well-known member
Tom that is a lot of shipping costs back and forth. I did a little of that but found it expensive. So you have 70 binoculars?
Kammerdiner
Well-known member
Tom, as a one-time "audiophile" you crack me up with that Nakamichi reference. But, I'm still using a 26 year old Hafler preamp (homebuilt no less) along with an Adcom amp. Turn the amp off and the capacitors take about thirty seconds to discharge. It's got enough headroom to run a Prius. The stupid things are indestructible and still sound as good as or better than any of the new "Best Buy" crud that probably wouldn't last six years. In fact, I kinda wish they would die so I could justify getting something smaller. That tells you something about quality from the start, and I suspect alpha binoculars may have some of the same "right stuff."
As for your binophilosophy, you are a lot like me in that. I'm always looking for a way to save some money. Alright I confess, I'm cheap. But look what I've finally gravitated to: 8.5 SV, 8x32 FL, Leica 8x20 UV (of course I got great deals on 2 out of 3 of those). There are some real flukes out there like the Olympus Tracker 8x25, the Nikon 8x32 SE, etc. But they are few and far between.
So I wonder about false economy at some point. I also wonder if you, like Dennis, are in it for the quest instead of the grail. I'm cheap, but I know a grail when I see one and with very few exceptions they're gonna cost you.
Just my two cents,
Mark
lilcrazy2
Well-known member
No, I probably only have around 15 on hand at the moment. As I said in another post, I buy em, try em and either keep em, sell em, or return them. I try to limit my exposure on return shipping costs whever possible.
Having been a member of Ebay for over 10 years, I learned a long time ago that the easiest way to feed an obsession is to let others pay for it. That way you get to try many different things, and ultimately let others pay for what you keep.
I don't count duplicates toward the total count, and not everything is the very latest and greatest. I have gone thru 4 prs of 8x32 Leupold Gold Rings, 3 prs of Nikon 7x35 E's and about 6 or 7 prs of 10.5x45 Bushnell Infinitys. I bought the 8x32 GR's based on a post in the Bargain Thread where CDNN was selling them for $299. And also 2 pr of 7x26 Bushnell Custom Elites for $125 from the same thread.
After liking the 8x42 Alpen Wings ED so much, I noticed when I looked at the Allbinos test on Saturday that the 10x42 ED did not get that good of ratings, so I ordered one yesterday to test and see what I think. But I have noticed on other makes and models that I haven't liked the 10x42 versions as much as the 8x42s. I just have a hard time believing that it ranks slightly ahead of the old 10x42 Bushnell Legend, which I have also had. While I thought that the original 10x42 Legend was a great bino for its time and price, I personally don't think it is better than the 10x42 Leupold Pinnacle, Zen ZRS HD, Legend Ultra HD, etc. So I guess I'll see soon.
tom
lilcrazy2
Well-known member
Mark
I fully understand your comments on the old tube stuff as I have a few friends who never made it out of the 70's. I remember when digital TV first came out and I read about this guy buying an old TV antenna company, and thinking "what an idiot". But then I learned about the purity and uncompressed nature of the digital signal over the air versus thru the cable, and finally understood that I'm the idiot and he is the multimillionaire.
I have read many posts on the "false economy" of not just buying an alpha, but as I stated earlier, I have no interest in doing such at this time. If I wanted an alpha, its just a phone call or a click away. I know I am in it for the quest and not the grail, because if I bought an alpha now, then what fun would it be buying and trying? It's sort of like making love to a woman - you can get it over with in 5 minutes, or you can drag it out and make it last as long as possible.
When the bino obsession runs its course and I go off on another adventure, we'll see what happens then. Until then its - ooh baby, I love you long long time!
Tom
collinvue
Active member
+
raptorbfl, I'v owned a pair of the Alpen 8X42 Wings ED for over a year now, like em alot.
I tested lots of bins and the view is close to Pentax ED,
very acceptable overall clarity, but a much greater field of view than Pentax.
The Zen-Ray had slightly sharper center focus, but and after having the ED2s, a pair of Pentax DCF ED & others,
I simply kept the Wings ED
{Important: the Alpen Wings they are not the same EDs' as Zen-Ray ect..}
Wings ED are light and well balanced, the main reason I kept them is,,,the focus wheel is fast and easy turning
:t:
Edit: bins I tested ~
Zen-Ray ED2
Atlas Intrepid ED
Pentax DCF ED
Vortex Viper (non ED)
&
Alpen Wings ED
raptorbfl, I'v owned a pair of the Alpen 8X42 Wings ED for over a year now, like em alot.
I tested lots of bins and the view is close to Pentax ED,
very acceptable overall clarity, but a much greater field of view than Pentax.
The Zen-Ray had slightly sharper center focus, but and after having the ED2s, a pair of Pentax DCF ED & others,
I simply kept the Wings ED
{Important: the Alpen Wings they are not the same EDs' as Zen-Ray ect..}
Wings ED are light and well balanced, the main reason I kept them is,,,the focus wheel is fast and easy turning
:t:
Edit: bins I tested ~
Zen-Ray ED2
Atlas Intrepid ED
Pentax DCF ED
Vortex Viper (non ED)
&
Alpen Wings ED
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Kammerdiner
Well-known member
OK, just for fun here's a link to an old review of my Adcom amp, something I've never seen before. Sounds familiar doesn't it? If anything audiophiles are fussier than we are.
http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/678/
Mark
PS: gotta love this: "it's harmonic shape mixes suitable yingyang while avoiding the curse of pyramidology" Yah, what???
http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/678/
Mark
PS: gotta love this: "it's harmonic shape mixes suitable yingyang while avoiding the curse of pyramidology" Yah, what???
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collinvue
Active member
+
To confirm Toms readings, my 8X42 Wings ED {just bare bins} are 24.37oz.
Have a good one!
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