Edward woodwood
Member
so they were generally thought to be in scots pine - rightly or wrongly
don't like being a pedant but u started it
don't like being a pedant but u started it
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Scottish Crossbill (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter pduxon
- Start date
Michael Frankis
conehead
Yep, the conclusion that the 'real' Scotbills (i.e., call type C birds, with intermediate size bills) weren't in the native pinewoods very much, is a very recent finding (within the last 2 years). Primary obs. with recording equipt and in-the-hand measurements, and also re-examination of the collection details of the museum skins.
Michael
Michael
Last edited:
Michael Frankis
conehead
Hi Jason,
Probably, yes. But not definitely, of course!
Michael
Probably, yes. But not definitely, of course!
Michael
Edward woodwood
Member
much more than likely
had some stonking parrots 'singing' there last Feb
had some stonking parrots 'singing' there last Feb
The one I saw there wasn't exactly stonking, but it's bill was noticeably heavier than any of the Xbills I've seen in Devon. Interestingly, "weak-billed Parrotbill" was what went through my mind at the time, even though this was before that species was discovered there. For better or worse it's on my list as Scottish. I expect it will stay that way! (It's only a list, after all.)
Jason
Jason
Hi all,
While it may be ever so boring,and offers no identification challenges,the situation in Ireland is much less problematic:we only have Commons,and there isn't an accepted record of Parrot as yet(though there was a claim of one on the Mullet last year seen well with migrant Commons)....
Harry H
While it may be ever so boring,and offers no identification challenges,the situation in Ireland is much less problematic:we only have Commons,and there isn't an accepted record of Parrot as yet(though there was a claim of one on the Mullet last year seen well with migrant Commons)....
Harry H
gordon hamlett
Well-known member
All this is too easy-peasy!
Isn't there talk of the Yanks splitting Common Crossbill into many species - one per food crop? Now that would be tricky - and heaven help any bird that chose to land in the wrong tree <grin>
Gordon
Isn't there talk of the Yanks splitting Common Crossbill into many species - one per food crop? Now that would be tricky - and heaven help any bird that chose to land in the wrong tree <grin>
Gordon
alcedo.atthis
Well-known member
Who is "Skitts"??
Hi Malky,
No I haven't - I dont know who this person is ! I am on the fringes of the Aberdeen scene being a "new" boy and all !
Cheers
Linz
Lindsay, he is the leader of the Grampian Ringing Group. I note that you have been posting on the local sites. You should be able to pick up the next SOC meeting date at the Sportmans Club. If you have not been before, you should go. You will meet quite a few of the birding diehards, including members of the ringing group.
Just looking at th 1992 numbers for rung Crossbills, 30 in total. I seem to remember that most of them were from Glen Tanar.
Regards
Malky @ Westhill
Hi Malky,
No I haven't - I dont know who this person is ! I am on the fringes of the Aberdeen scene being a "new" boy and all !
Cheers
Linz
Lindsay, he is the leader of the Grampian Ringing Group. I note that you have been posting on the local sites. You should be able to pick up the next SOC meeting date at the Sportmans Club. If you have not been before, you should go. You will meet quite a few of the birding diehards, including members of the ringing group.
Just looking at th 1992 numbers for rung Crossbills, 30 in total. I seem to remember that most of them were from Glen Tanar.
Regards
Malky @ Westhill
alcedo.atthis
Well-known member
Crossbills and Red Grouse. Whats the difference??
Hi Malky,
Nope, no Red Grouse in Germany, other than perhaps any feral ones from deliberate releases.
Michael, realising that the Red Grouse is a sub of the Willow Grouse, why do you then suppose that the Red Grouse does not get the "endemic" tag that the Scottish Crossbill gets. If the "Red" is only found in the U.K. is the fact that it is found within more than one of the internal countries which make up the U.K. a point of disqualification regarding endemic status. Tim, since you also mentioned the evolutionary step, which would probably involve cross breeding of species to fill the resource niche, what are your thoughts on the above.
Malky @ Westhill
Hi Malky,
Nope, no Red Grouse in Germany, other than perhaps any feral ones from deliberate releases.
Michael, realising that the Red Grouse is a sub of the Willow Grouse, why do you then suppose that the Red Grouse does not get the "endemic" tag that the Scottish Crossbill gets. If the "Red" is only found in the U.K. is the fact that it is found within more than one of the internal countries which make up the U.K. a point of disqualification regarding endemic status. Tim, since you also mentioned the evolutionary step, which would probably involve cross breeding of species to fill the resource niche, what are your thoughts on the above.
Malky @ Westhill
Michael Frankis
conehead
Hi Malky,
In 'official' terms, Red Grouse is treated as a race because of the supposed "imtermediate race" variegatus on islands on the west coast of Norway. This "race" is in fact a hybrid mix, not a true race, and derives from human-introduced Red Grouse interbreeding with local native Willow Grouse - as artificial a situation as the Ruddy Ducks breeding with White-headed Ducks in Spain.
To delve into the politics of it - I do wonder if (quite reasonably!) the ornithological powers-that-be don't want to give any ammunition to the grouse moor owners with their raptor extermination crusade. I sympathise hugely, but do wonder whether dodgy science should be used to support this view (much as Scot Xbill is kept as a species mainly to gain EU funding for native pinewood protection). Using dodgy science always has a way of backfiring.
Michael
In 'official' terms, Red Grouse is treated as a race because of the supposed "imtermediate race" variegatus on islands on the west coast of Norway. This "race" is in fact a hybrid mix, not a true race, and derives from human-introduced Red Grouse interbreeding with local native Willow Grouse - as artificial a situation as the Ruddy Ducks breeding with White-headed Ducks in Spain.
To delve into the politics of it - I do wonder if (quite reasonably!) the ornithological powers-that-be don't want to give any ammunition to the grouse moor owners with their raptor extermination crusade. I sympathise hugely, but do wonder whether dodgy science should be used to support this view (much as Scot Xbill is kept as a species mainly to gain EU funding for native pinewood protection). Using dodgy science always has a way of backfiring.
Michael
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