jaymoynihan
Corvus brachyrhynchos watcher
Curious, any folks still using (exclusively or not) the 8x30 or 7x42 Diaylt BGAT*P*'s ?
I still use both, amongst others....
I still use both, amongst others....
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Diaylt BGAT*P*'s still using? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter jaymoynihan
- Start date
Pinewood
New York correspondent
Hello Jay,
Yes, I still use the 7x42 Dialyt T*p*. I have not tried the FL. However, the Dialyt does everything right: wide FOV, whose edges are not too soft; good suppression of chromatic aberration, possibly because of the long focal length; great brilliance and contrast. Its major drawback is the shortest focussing distance. It even provides a hint of stereopsis.
I have the 8x30, but I find it too prone to glare.
Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:
Yes, I still use the 7x42 Dialyt T*p*. I have not tried the FL. However, the Dialyt does everything right: wide FOV, whose edges are not too soft; good suppression of chromatic aberration, possibly because of the long focal length; great brilliance and contrast. Its major drawback is the shortest focussing distance. It even provides a hint of stereopsis.
I have the 8x30, but I find it too prone to glare.
Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:
The 8x30 provides faithful service as a robust go anywhere glass when the larger Canon 10x42 is too much. While roll down eye cups are no longer state of the art, the optical performance and the mechanicals remain top notch. It is a pleasing glass to use, with adequate eye relief and a handy profile.
I've not found glare especially objectionable with it, although it can be noticeable if within about 10 degrees of strong light from sun or reflections.
It is apparently not fully waterproof, only splash resistant, but has served very well in rain and sleet conditions, so the protection is much more than just pro forma.
The newer FLs are surely more modern and perhaps somewhat better optically, but the perceived improvements are not sufficient to get me to break open the piggy bank, especially at a price approaching $2000.
I've not found glare especially objectionable with it, although it can be noticeable if within about 10 degrees of strong light from sun or reflections.
It is apparently not fully waterproof, only splash resistant, but has served very well in rain and sleet conditions, so the protection is much more than just pro forma.
The newer FLs are surely more modern and perhaps somewhat better optically, but the perceived improvements are not sufficient to get me to break open the piggy bank, especially at a price approaching $2000.
brocknroller
porromaniac
Since both bins are apparently in good working condition, perhaps you can persuade Ben to give you $800 for each as trade-ins on 10x42 and 7x42 FLs at EO.
The 7x42s have external focus so there might be a way to "tweak" a few more feet of close focus out of them.
John Cota did this with his 8x42 Ultralites (original version). I think he got them down from 16' to 13'.
He took the cap off the front end of the centerpost to expose the screw thread (make sure to mark the IPD on the cap so you can put it back in the same position!). Then he turned the thread with a screw driver until he got a few more feet of close focus.
Of course, you lose that much focus past infinity. This might be what Leica did with the Trinnie BN vis-à-vis the BA.
Given your bins' heirloom quality, I'd recommend you call Zeiss and see if they can tweak the close focus for you.
Interesting coincidence here. I just scored a pair of the 7's and am in love. I haven't used the FL's so can't compare, but these beauties are totally incredible to me. I can't see myself ever needing anything different. There are no superlatives to adequately describe how I feel about them.
As far as the close focus thing, mine come in nicely at about fifteen feet, which is damn close enough for me.
As far as the close focus thing, mine come in nicely at about fifteen feet, which is damn close enough for me.
Gianni
Filotecnico
I still use the 7x42 Dialyt T* (not P*).
I recently asked Zeiss about the possibility to change the prisms with the P* version (by paying) and I received the following answer from Zeiss Germany:
<<
This 7x42 already has the T* coatings, and thus, the transmission of his binocular will be in the range of 90%. No chance to improve this any further.
The P* coating can not be retrofitted, but even if it could, it would not improve the transmission, respectively the brightness of his binocular. All it would inlfuence would be the resolution, but also only from a already damned high level to a slighltly higher one.
[...] P* is not available for this old model [...]
>>
On the contrary, a Zeiss advertisement says:
<< Zeiss T* multi-coating on the lenses and P* phase coating on the prisms improve light transmission for bright, sharp images and enhanced twilight vision. >>
I'm still very satisfied with my "old" 7x42 and I was evaluating the purchase of an 8x32 FL. I own four Zeiss photographic lenses also, etc.
After the answer mentioned above, I think that I will buy a Leica or Swarovski 8x32.
I recently asked Zeiss about the possibility to change the prisms with the P* version (by paying) and I received the following answer from Zeiss Germany:
<<
This 7x42 already has the T* coatings, and thus, the transmission of his binocular will be in the range of 90%. No chance to improve this any further.
The P* coating can not be retrofitted, but even if it could, it would not improve the transmission, respectively the brightness of his binocular. All it would inlfuence would be the resolution, but also only from a already damned high level to a slighltly higher one.
[...] P* is not available for this old model [...]
>>
On the contrary, a Zeiss advertisement says:
<< Zeiss T* multi-coating on the lenses and P* phase coating on the prisms improve light transmission for bright, sharp images and enhanced twilight vision. >>
I'm still very satisfied with my "old" 7x42 and I was evaluating the purchase of an 8x32 FL. I own four Zeiss photographic lenses also, etc.
After the answer mentioned above, I think that I will buy a Leica or Swarovski 8x32.
The response of the Zeiss service department seems to reflect the visceral response of a harried technician rather than the carefully polished reply you might expect from the marketing or PR side.
In fact, the reply appears correct, the P* coating provides phase coherency for the image, which reduces color smear and hence improves contrast, but without increasing brightness. Unfortunately, this level of precision is a bear to achieve and is I believe calibrated to each prism set during manufacture. Presumably Zeiss could exchange the entire optical train on your glass and so provide the requested service, but that would certainly cost more than the binocs did new. So a retrofit is impractical, particularly as this model is out of production.
More generally, to my knowledge retrofitting a glass to achieve phase coherence is not offered by anyone, so switching suppliers will help ease your understandable aggravation, but won't bring you closer to the service you requested.
In fact, the reply appears correct, the P* coating provides phase coherency for the image, which reduces color smear and hence improves contrast, but without increasing brightness. Unfortunately, this level of precision is a bear to achieve and is I believe calibrated to each prism set during manufacture. Presumably Zeiss could exchange the entire optical train on your glass and so provide the requested service, but that would certainly cost more than the binocs did new. So a retrofit is impractical, particularly as this model is out of production.
More generally, to my knowledge retrofitting a glass to achieve phase coherence is not offered by anyone, so switching suppliers will help ease your understandable aggravation, but won't bring you closer to the service you requested.
tonimaroni
Well-known member
Cost estimation...
@ Gianni ;-)
To give you an idea of the cost for upgrading your bins here are a short estimation:
- disassembling your old bins 1 hour = 130 EUR
- removal of the old coating: 0,5 hour = 130 EUR
- set up of PVD vacuum oven (must be done especially for your prism): 1 hour = 3000 EUR
- process of PVD: 1 hour = 3000 EUR
- assembly of your bins incl. collimation etc. : 2 hour = 250 EUR
Subtotal: 6'510 EUR
Handling fee because your bins will interupt the normal manufacturing process: 5'000 EUR
Total: appr. 11'500 EUR = 16'000 USD
I think the response of Zeiss was very polite...
@ Gianni ;-)
To give you an idea of the cost for upgrading your bins here are a short estimation:
- disassembling your old bins 1 hour = 130 EUR
- removal of the old coating: 0,5 hour = 130 EUR
- set up of PVD vacuum oven (must be done especially for your prism): 1 hour = 3000 EUR
- process of PVD: 1 hour = 3000 EUR
- assembly of your bins incl. collimation etc. : 2 hour = 250 EUR
Subtotal: 6'510 EUR
Handling fee because your bins will interupt the normal manufacturing process: 5'000 EUR
Total: appr. 11'500 EUR = 16'000 USD
I think the response of Zeiss was very polite...
James Bean
Well-known member
"All it would influence would be the resolution, but only from an already damned high level to a slightly higher one" (the advantage of T*P* over just T*). I've had my 10x40 BGAT* (not P*) for many years and it's still impressive. One of my standard tests for comparing binoculars is to see if I can read the lettering on a roof aerial about 75 metres away. The Nikon 8x32SE does it best, closely followed by Zeiss Jena 8x50 Octarem, Swift 10x50 Kestrel, Zeiss 8x30 Conquest, Nikon 8x42HG, Zeiss 10x40BGAT, Hawke 8x43ED, in roughly that order (might be slightly different another day, to my eyes). I know it's just one very subjective test and doesn't prove anything, except (and this is my point) the 1980s BGAT* is still very sharp, even in such exalted company, and suits me. I was using it today to watch a Blackbird in a tree about 50 metres away, surrounded by an attentive ring of Sparrows as if listening to his evensong; no doubt there was a more mundane reason for this unlikely gathering, but it put a smile on my face...
Gianni
Filotecnico
Because the 7x42 Dialyt was in current production until 2004, I hope that Zeiss have a stock of P coated prisms (then no removal of old coating, PVD vacuum oven, and so on).
I bought the bins in 2002 (2002 price, of course) and, later, I discovered that the dealer (official Zeiss dealer) sold me a 15 years old bins!!
Of course, I specified the reason of my request, then... "I think the response of Zeiss was very polite..." sorry, but I disagree.
I bought the bins in 2002 (2002 price, of course) and, later, I discovered that the dealer (official Zeiss dealer) sold me a 15 years old bins!!
Of course, I specified the reason of my request, then... "I think the response of Zeiss was very polite..." sorry, but I disagree.
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