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Jerky Focus Wheels (similar threads combined) (1 Viewer)

So most Ultravids are KNOWN to have jerky, stuttering focus wheel actions! Thanks a million to Jim Duffie for drawing my attention to this on NorthEastBirding website, and for attaching several examples from exasperated owners on the BirdForum pages. I had no idea that this was going on! In fact, like several other disappointed writers, I would never have purchased Leica binoculars if I’d known that they have a built-in design problem. After more research I find that the company are well aware of the fault and regularly repair the Ultravid models by dissembling the focus drive in the centre-column and inserting a Teflon washer. Apparently (unlike most other makes, which are assembled with special grease) Ultravids are put-together DRY. The aim was to avoid variations in grease viscosity making the knob too easy in hot temperatures and stiffer/slower on very cold days. Nice idea, but it hasn’t worked, and the service departments are retro-fitting the Teflon washers to smooth out the jerky dry spindles.
But what I’m so bloody angry about after spending over £1100 on a pair of bins is, that the fault has existed since 2003/04 (see various owner reports on the web) BUT LEICA HAVE CONTINUED TO SELL THEM to us, knowing that they are faulty!! They’ve had four years to put it right but are happy to take our money for a known faulty product. I’ve just dumped all my Swarovski gear for the same reason – all their new EL models have a big HOLE in the focus wheel, right through to inside. And yet Swarovski simply deny that it’s a problem, and continue to market them. How can they be waterproof and nitrogen-filled when you can look through a gap in the bridge and see inside the guts of the binoculars through it??
We seem to be getting ‘taken to the cleaners’ by these manufacturers. If only good old Zeiss were still making my beloved Dialyts. I looked through a pair the other day and they were still as good as the best of today’s offering, and half the size. Pity their new top-of-the-range models have optics that look like a Vaseline tube and the handling characteristics of a pineapple….
Cheers Paul Godolphin
 
HOLE in EL Focus Bridge

This message first went on the LEICA forum, but Swarovski owners should take a look too. I've had three pairs of Swarovskis recently, and eventually had to dump them all. The response from Swarovski has been to stonewall me completely and to refuse to accept that the fault exists. I've even sent them closeup technical photos of new models of EL that have the hole alongside earlier ones that don't. They still refuse to acknowledge this.
But here's what happened when I junked my Swaro kit in favour of Leica:
_______________________________________________________________
So most Ultravids are KNOWN to have jerky, stuttering focus wheel actions! Thanks a million to Jim Duffie for drawing my attention to this on NorthEastBirding website, and for attaching several examples from exasperated owners on the BirdForum pages. I had no idea that this was going on! In fact, like several other disappointed writers, I would never have purchased Leica binoculars if I’d known that they have a built-in design problem. After more research I find that the company are well aware of the fault and regularly repair the Ultravid models by dissembling the focus drive in the centre-column and inserting a Teflon washer. Apparently (unlike most other makes, which are assembled with special grease) Ultravids are put-together DRY. The aim was to avoid variations in grease viscosity making the knob too easy in hot temperatures and stiffer/slower on very cold days. Nice idea, but it hasn’t worked, and the service departments are retro-fitting the Teflon washers to smooth out the jerky dry spindles.
But what I’m so bloody angry about after spending over £1100 on a pair of bins is, that the fault has existed since 2003/04 (see various owner reports on the web) BUT LEICA HAVE CONTINUED TO SELL THEM to us, knowing that they are faulty!! They’ve had four years to put it right but are happy to take our money for a known faulty product. I’ve just dumped all my Swarovski gear for the same reason – all their new EL models have a big HOLE in the focus wheel, right through to inside. And yet Swarovski simply deny that it’s a problem, and continue to market them. How can they be waterproof and nitrogen-filled when you can look through a gap in the bridge and see inside the guts of the binoculars through it??
We seem to be getting ‘taken to the cleaners’ by these manufacturers. If only good old Zeiss were still making my beloved Dialyts. I looked through a pair the other day and they were still as good as the best of today’s offering, and half the size. Pity their new top-of-the-range models have optics that look like a Vaseline tube and the handling characteristics of a pineapple….
Cheers Paul Godolphin
 
Could you be more specific about where is this "hole"? You've mentioned it on the "bridge" and then on the "focus wheel", and also a "gap in the bridge". I don't believe I've heard this before.
 
I have got a pair of EL's and can't see the problem. I also recently bought 10 x42 Ultravids and can't see the problem here either. Both Leica and Swarovski produce excellent products IMO.


Linz
 
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Bought Ultravid 10 x 42's recently and perfectly happy with them. I own 2004 El 8.5's and have a new faster focus pair on loan (from Swaro UK while mine are being fixed under warranty - excellent service ) and can't see a hole right into the workings of the bins. A bit annoyed I even went and looked...........
 
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But what I’m so bloody angry about after spending over £1100 on a pair of bins is said:
As far as I'm concerned this problem started long before 2003. My ancient Leica 8x32 BAs bought in the early 1990s have exactly the same problem. I have sent them in once and they came back better but still some what rough.

I also agree with the Zeiss Dialyt thing. I have a pair of 7x42 "classics" and I have found no reason to replace them.

Sparrow
 
As far as I'm concerned this problem started long before 2003. My ancient Leica 8x32 BAs bought in the early 1990s have exactly the same problem. I have sent them in once and they came back better but still some what rough.

I also agree with the Zeiss Dialyt thing. I have a pair of 7x42 "classics" and I have found no reason to replace them.

Sparrow

My old Leitz 7 x 42 BA Trinovids, also purchased in the early 1990's do not have any problems with the focusing wheel and never did and they underwent alot of hard use under all kinds of! weather conditions and bouncing around in a car and being left in the car under all kinds of weather conditions. They are one tough binocular! The same goes for my current 7 x 42 BN Trinovids although they haven't received the hard use my older one did. I have 3 Leica's, including the 8 x 20 Trinovid, and I think that their focusing wheels are the most precise and responsive of all the binoculars I own which includes Nikon EII's, SE's and LXL's, Minox BD's, Swift 804, and Eagle Ravens.
Cordially,
Bob
 
GRIFFIN please email me and I'll send you photos of the hole to help you locate it. All pairs of recent EL's that I've examined have the hole. Sorry that I don't know how to email you from this site, I'm new to this. Also, my apologies if my attempt to help has annoyed you - I thought my comments would make things better for you in deciding, not irritate you. But I'm sorry if you found my earnest and truthful account of my experiences upsetting. Feel free to email me, and I'll show you the hole...... all the best, Paul
 
Hi guys. Email me for photos. I'll be delighted to show you the same pictures that Swarovski won't accept. I'd send them now, but I admit that I'm new to this and don't know what to 'click' on to mail you. Please mail me, and I'll send you some photos back. You might be able to help me on how I can post the pictures on Birdforum too, then everyone can look at what I mean. Thanks a million. Paul
 
Actually it's triple posted yaaaaawwnnnnn

This isn't quite a three-pete, but close:
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=879652&highlight=paul+godolphin#post879652

Referring to the Swaro 10x25 SLC:
...Apart from the apalling manufacturing defects (crooked eyepieces, off-centre lenses, differning thickness of rubber, incorrectly printed badge etc) I found that I was unable to read road signs at the other end of the street that I could see well with the chinese pair!...

Sorry, it's not credible! It sounds like a truck ran over them, but Swarovski would even repair that at no cost — if they weren't knock-offs.

Ed
PS. Paul, you can attach the pictures to a BirdForum post. Use the "Manage Attachments" button below the editing panel.
 
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The hole he's referring to must be the open slit along the top edge of the left side of the hinge, just in front of the focus knob. As far as I know, the EL design has always had this hole. My early production 8.5x42 have it, as do my fairly recent 8x32, though I must admit that the gap is quite a bit wider in the latter (such that you can see into the workings a bit). I've always thought that it would be a very bad place to accidentally get some sand, and I've always presumed that the overall sealing of the EL optical system is somewhere deeper in the mechanism (not including the focusing gear system). Just as with other "waterproof" binos, the focus system may be vulnerable to water intrusion, which might especially be a problem if subsequently used in below freezing temps. All this acknowledged/said/speculated, I haven't worried about this design much because I've not heard of anyone having any problems resulting from it.
--AP
 
My old Leitz 7 x 42 BA Trinovids, also purchased in the early 1990's do not have any problems with the focusing wheel and never did and they underwent alot of hard use under all kinds of! weather conditions and bouncing around in a car and being left in the car under all kinds of weather conditions. They are one tough binocular! The same goes for my current 7 x 42 BN Trinovids although they haven't received the hard use my older one did. I have 3 Leica's, including the 8 x 20 Trinovid, and I think that their focusing wheels are the most precise and responsive of all the binoculars I own which includes Nikon EII's, SE's and LXL's, Minox BD's, Swift 804, and Eagle Ravens.
Cordially,
Bob

I think the focus wheel is either smooth from the start, and it remains that way. Or else, it is rough from the start (to a variable degree depending on a particular sample); and it seems to pretty much stay that way too. What seems to vary to some degree is how much one can get accustomed to this fault. So it's not a matter of how much rough treatment is involved.
 
The hole he's referring to must be the open slit along the top edge of the left side of the hinge, just in front of the focus knob. As far as I know, the EL design has always had this hole. My early production 8.5x42 have it, as do my fairly recent 8x32, though I must admit that the gap is quite a bit wider in the latter (such that you can see into the workings a bit). I've always thought that it would be a very bad place to accidentally get some sand, and I've always presumed that the overall sealing of the EL optical system is somewhere deeper in the mechanism (not including the focusing gear system). Just as with other "waterproof" binos, the focus system may be vulnerable to water intrusion, which might especially be a problem if subsequently used in below freezing temps. All this acknowledged/said/speculated, I haven't worried about this design much because I've not heard of anyone having any problems resulting from it.
--AP


Oh yeah! Now I see it! I have two pairs of ELs and to be honest I´d never noticed that. Can´t say it bothers me that much, I´m not trying to be flippant but I assume this is isolated from the actual "tubes" if you know what I mean. Paul, you can´t be serious when you say you "dumped" three pairs of binos over this? I hope you mean you sold them. Best of luck with your new bins, I hope the Teflon washer solution makes your Leicas satisfactory.
 
ALEXIS- yessir, that's exactly the hole I'm describing. Well spotted! My photos confirm the findings of ALL my friends in the UK who own earlier EL's and have no gap, and ALL new models that can be found in the shops that I've examined (and bought) that DO have the gap. As you describe, it reveals some silver alluminium glinting through. There is no trace of this on the early models. As you say, the focus bridge mechanisms are open to the elements, just at a spot where water and dust will always fall and build up. The BAD news is that you can insert a thin knife blade through the gap, right inside. This chamber leads directly into the barrells where all the optics are located. We have examined this at the dealers, and he was shocked to see on the glass cutaway demo model in the store, that the pushrods from the focus chamber lead directly into the optics. So there appears to be no way that the binocular can possibly be gas-pressurised or sealed to the external environment as claimed. Once more, I offer you the photos, just ask. I really didn't post this for my own gratification - these are my personal experiences, and I've studied the situation closely. I even did several 1000 mile round trips to dealers stores and to photograph EL's in other parts of the UK. I hope readers take this information in the positive spirit it was intended.
Thanks again to Alexis for being sharp-eyed enough to see the fault too, I've had real trouble getting it noticed, but it's serious enough to invalidate the integrity of the model, and I had to get rid of mine as a result of Swarovski's refusal to accept it.
many thanks Paul
 
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Sorry for introducing discussion on Swarovski binos here on the Leica page! My message was about both types, so I had to post it in more than one place. Sorry about that. But ELKCUB- pse email me for photos of the 10x25 if you don't beleive me, and I again offer to send you the photos. I don't blame you for disbelieving me. I find it incredible myself. We must be sheep, following the herd to buy super-high priced equipment that is offered in such obviously bad condition. Don't disbelieve - let me send the photos of my pair!
 
Design "Faults"

Paul - I am sorry that you are unhappy with both Leica and Swaro Bins. However, the problems you describe are not design faults per se IMHO !

Notchy Ultravid Wheel - the "quirky" ultravid focus wheel is a design characteristic to allow thermal versatility. As you say if you are unhappy Leica will fix this characteristic. Mine appears to be fine and is comparable with my El's in the amount of "play". It doesn't bother me basically and certainly did not deter me from buying the Ultravids which I think are brilliant.

Holes in EL's - Are you really seriously referring to the slit where the hinge is ? I can say this is not a design fault as over 3 years I have used my EL's in quite atrociously wet conditions, whereby if there was access to the internal chambers my bins would definitely have fogged. I have also rinsed them under the tap several times. No problems. The elements therefore must be nitrogen sealed.

Maybe it is just me but I prefer to spend more time looking through my bins than looking at them trying to pick faults with them ! ;) I too have paid the expensive prices but I am perfectly happy.

Did you really make "several thousand mile trips" just to prove there is a slit on the hinge of an EL ? I am sincere and not being patronising when I say I really do hope you find a product that suits you as that seems an awful waste of potenially productive birding time ! You will see on Bird Forum that people are very partisan with their binoculars esp. Leica and Swarovski, and whilst I am not slighted at all by your comments and observations, others may be.

BTW, I write this as someone who has had a problem with several Leica scopes ( Apo 62). My experience with this was negative, but then the coatings were coming off - that is a fault ! Leica graciously replaced it with a new scope but this too was faulty. I got a refund from the retailer. I already had an Apo 77 and am perfectly happy with it after 4 years and "returned" to Leica for new bins just last month. I would recommend them.

Hope you find some respite, but remember 10 therapy sessions on your binocular complex = the cost of a pair of Ultravids ! ;) I know what I would rather have !

Good luck and happy birding,


Linz
 
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