Zeiss v Swarovski (1 Viewer)

I am presently contemplating upgrading my Cosina 15-50x70 mid 80's spotting scope.

I would be buying second hand and have boiled it down to a choice between the old Zeiss diascope and the Swarovski ats80hd or at80hd.

Clarity and sharpness at 1-2 miles distance would be very important to me.

Any opinions, recommendations greatly appreciated.

My wife and I use a Zeiss 85, with the 20-60 zoom.

IMO, comparing the Zeiss and Swarovski:

- both give incredible views, depending on the sample;
- the Zeiss has a significantly greater area of field;
- focusing at 60x is easier with the Zeiss;
- the new 20-75x Zeiss zoom fits on the older body (have tried this);
- many birders carry the armoured Swarovski without a SOC;
- if you use a UV filter, on the Swarovski it screws into the sun shade.

If weight matters to you, the Zeiss and Swarovki 65s are also both excellent, allowing lighter heads and tripods. However, the Zeiss zoom then gives you 15-45x (15-56x with the new zoom), while the Swarovski eyepiece is still 20-60x.

Mike

Thanks very much for the info Mike.

Weight really is'nt an issue as it will mostly be a stay at home scope. We live in an area with great countryside and wildlife views. Out and about I just carry the bins.

Does the view still remain reasonably sharp at 75 power.

Why not the Nikon ED82?

If you haven't already considered it then it is certainly worth doing so.... unless you are desperate for a zoom lens with large FOV. The ED82 does fall short here but it is pin sharp to 75X.

Perry

Hi Goosie, I used to have the older model Zeiss Diascope 85. I used it first with the older Zeiss 20-60 zoom, then with a Baader-Hyperion zoom. It's a superb instrument, but I didn't like the dual focusser. Also, the metal body isn't too comfortable (although a stay-on case would solve that). I found the yellowish cast to the scope irritating after a while, especially on overcast days - you know what I mean, looking out from Baltray over the sea in January can be dull enough, without the clouds on the horizon turning to the colour of smog!
I now use a Swaro ATS80HD, which I love. I have the new 25-50 zoom on, which is sublime, and I prefer the helical focusser. I don't use a stay-on case, and it doesn't need one.
Perry's suggestion is a good one - I also used to have a Nikon ED82A. This is an excellent scope in all respects, and the 30x MC or DS eyepiece is superb. The zoom is pin-sharp and very bright right up to near the max (75x), but the field is very, very narrow.
Can you try them before you buy? If you're not picky and obsessive like me, you'd be perfectly happy with any of these scopes.

Edit - have a look at Andy's ad on the classifieds here on BF. He's selling a Diascope 65 with the zoom eyepiece.
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=217804

Thanks Peter. I did consider it but they dont seem to be as available in the seconhand market as the swaro/zeiss. Having said that I could probably get a new one for around the same money as the secondhand S/Z.

From reading, the only reservation I had about the nikon was the backup service.

The advice to try these scopes is well-founded. Star testing is pretty much necessary to identify a good sample. As other more-qualified posters have described, optical variation among samples is more significant than brand, when comparing scopes around the same price point.

Our Zeiss 20-60x zoom is tack-sharp at 60x. I tried the 20-75x zoom on our scope at Pelee Wings in Leamington last May, and the image was a bit soft at 75x. I put this down to vibration (The wind was up at the time.), as the reviews of the eyepiece look good. YMMV. The eyepiece is next on my list, when it sells for significantly less than $750.00 USD.

Last Wednesday the Bruce Birding Club were out along Georgian Bay, under overcast skies, getting great looks at a first winter Franklin's Gull at the Kincardine marina, and Bald Eagles at Baie du D'Or. I compared the image through our 65 Zeiss at 45x to a Kowa 883 with 20-60x zoom, and a Swarovski STS 80, also with the 20-60x, and preferred the Zeiss. Perhaps it was bias, but I don't see the yellow cast.

Mike

Hi Sancho. I read your review from 2007 on the Nikon and was very impressed and I think you guys are starting to sway me back in that direction but there is still just something about the european glass thing and their backup.

Is the Nikon consistently narrower throughout the zoom range?

I considered Andys 65 for a long time here last night but the 80's came out the winner mainly due to the dark Baltray scenario you describe.

I have a Swaro... 80mm with the 20-60 eyepiece. I have not compared it to the Zeiss. I love the helical focus as that was a huge selling point for me... I also prefer the rubber armor.

Best suggestion...list on a checklist the features of each including accessories you might want such as future digiscoping etc.... What features have more value to you? Include ergonomics so it helps to see n touch them so u have a feel of what fits best with u. Honestly at this level the optics are all solid and crystal clear... It is the ergonomics... Accessories etc that make one scope shine over the other for a buyer.

Goosie said:

Hi Sancho. I read your review from 2007 on the Nikon and was very impressed and I think you guys are starting to sway me back in that direction but there is still just something about the european glass thing and their backup.

Is the Nikon consistently narrower throughout the zoom range?

I considered Andys 65 for a long time here last night but the 80's came out the winner mainly due to the dark Baltray scenario you describe.

Click to expand...

Did I do a review? Wow. I wish I'd read it and kept the scope - I'd have saved myself a fortune!
The Nikon zoom is narrower throughout the range. Nikon service in the UK is very good, but you pay a pre-service assessment fee (it's about 120 sterling), and then anything extra if necessary, if the issue is not covered under warranty.
I've no experience of Zeiss service. But Swarovski are top-class (as are Opticron). I've sent stuff for repair and cleaning and always had it back double-quick, usually gratis. If you want to try the Swaro kit in a shop, Conn's in Clarendon Street have them (and their prices for top-end kit are competitive). Occasionally they have 2nd-hand stuff, give them a call. If you want to try my Swaro with the 25-50 zoom, I'm based in Bray, PM me. I think you're right about the 80mm rather than 65mm. Not that much difference in weight, but on dull days or late in the evening it's crucial.

Mike and Imans66.

I'm afraid here in Ireland there is very limited availability of top class optics, so the "try before you buy" is not really an option for me.
My purchase will be an internet one probably from the UK.

Buying a top name with good back up service then becomes crucial with regard to resale value in the event that you would be totally unhappy with your purchase.

Ergonomics I can get around so long as the viewing is clear and comfortable throughout the zoom range.

Hard to go wrong with Swarovski.

My wife just had her 8 year old 10x42 ELs tuned in Germany, which took about 5 weeks, and they came back with a butter-smooth focus, and new armour, at no charge (The binocs previously had their focusing ratio changed in Germany.).

Mike

Well Sancho just so happened, I was up in "the big smoke" yesterday. Eventually found Conns having walked past it at least on one occassion. Only scope secondhand he had there was a Leica 77. Gave it a try out and was very impressed but not to the point of parting with 2G's. Have to say Conns customer service is exemplary and even though the shop was full I was given full attention.

All the points you make above are why the swaro is probably no. 1 in my list.
I guess the big question is: Do you feel that you have upgraded from the Zeiss and Nikon to the Swaro.

Thank you very much for the invite.

Goosie said:

I guess the big question is: Do you feel that you have upgraded from the Zeiss and Nikon to the Swaro.

Click to expand...

A tough question, that. I think they're all on a par optically, with minor differences that don't make any one a clear "winner". If you like zooms, and prefer wide-field, that rules out the Nikon. If you like helical focussers, that rules out the Zeiss. Then you have to look at the ergonomics and which one suits you best. Factor in the aftersales issue, and for me, the Swaro is my preference. That's not to say I wouldn't like a zoom eyepiece with a bit more mag than 50x (although I found the 25-50x more than adequate seawatching this autumn). So I wouldn't say the Swaro is an "upgrade" from the Nikon and Zeiss, but it has allowed me to "tweak" various issues and come up with the compromise I'm happiest with.
I should mention that any time I've lost eyecups, or the little plastic "aiming device" from the scope, etc., and needed a replacement, I've emailed Swarovski UK asking for a quote on the cost of a replacement. Invariably, the item arrives a few days later in the post with a "compliments" slip. They even cleaned and serviced a pair of EL's for me some years ago gratis, and similarly replaced a lens element on a scope eyepiece some time ago. I know it's easy to be cynical, but it's nice to know that as a customer, you're looked after long after you've made a major purchase, even though there is no immediate profit in it for the company. It makes you feel secure in the knowledge that with good service back-up, your kit will last a long time. And in the interests of fairness, I have had the same experience with Opticron, and Nikon sent me objective covers free (although the "service assessment" cost of getting Nikon kit actually repaired by Nikon UK in Richmond is regrettable). By contrast, an email to Leica asking for the price of a replacement lanyard some time ago went ignored.

Good synopsis Sancho..... certainly helps to focus the whole question for a relative novice...Thanks.

Hi Goosie, I've sent you a pm.

Ger.