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USA Shutdown, impact on state parks? (1 Viewer)

The Mineral King valley in Sequoia National Park has a cabin community that got to keep it's cabins. A rare example.

I like the previous post. We deserve more smack like that. Minefields...........cool.
 
What I'm saying is that if, say, a Japanese citizen has booked a trip to the US which includes national parks (for the sake of argument, let's say it's an all inclusive offer) before the shutdown, arrives in the US before the shutdown, and then finds himself barred from entering the places he's already paid for to visit - and this through no fault of his own, or the tour organizer, or the elements - shouldn't he get a re-fund of sorts? Or should he accept his hard-earned vacation getting ruined by the whims of an incompetent legislative? And the same goes for a "domestic", US American, tourist. Again, bear in mind that these places are owned by the American people, not by the government (regardless of party), or the executive.

Yes, more than an imposition on the customer paying for the vacation. Perhaps it's not proper argue civil law here. But, I was involved with someone having a prepaid vacation package to another part of the world. That person passed away before the trip, and I had to engage an attorney to have the booking agents return a considerable sum. Laws on the books, and federal agencies fully funded and staffed helped considerably, too.

In your hypothetical, IMO, the onus in part, is on the booking agent also, in showing good faith.
Some booking agents hold as much esteem as politicians in my own world.

I'll agree that the fee charged directly related to the entrance of the park should be refunded. Beyond that lies the realm of civil legal mitigation. I also agree, it's an embarrassment to citizens here. It's frustrating for myself. Having access to documents and sites denied, that can truly help someone else here, with a question on habitat restoration. Lastly, if you do not like the bananas here, get your bananas somewhere else. Can always exercise your freedom of choice.
 
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I understand that, and I have a hypothetical question.
Will those tourist use the same booking agents
that hypothetically refused to refund that first package?

If it was me, they would loose my custom if they were at fault. But they would probably let you book something else with them for the same price at no extra cost if they value your custom. Most, if not all travel agencies offer cancellation insurance and although something like this particular case is not forseen, perhaps it will be in the future. There is normally a little bit of leeway because they don't want the bad publicity, so a change of destination shouldn't normally be a problem as long as it is the same price category.
 
In the sort of situation described for tourists, surely the quarrel would be with the travel agent not the US government? If a tourist wanted to visit the Statue of Liberty, for example, and it was covered in scaffolding while having work done could the tourist sue the gov. because their experience visiting the site was spoiled? To me it's a similar sort of thing.
We will be leaving for Florida 1 Nov. for most of 6 months. I hope that the wildlife refuges re-open while we are there but if not Florida has lots of other opportunities for birding and wildlife watching. We spend the winter in the Ocala National Forest, 600+ sq. miles of forest riddled with roads and tracks. It's true that gov. services will be shut but not the forest, too many people live within the the forest boundary, including us. Wildlife refuges are great for seeing concentrations of birds but the same birds can be seen almost anywhere. I've seen most of the tall waders at the lake where we stay, just not in the same numbers or reliability of sighting. Other wildlife can be seen on the sides of the road, deer regularly, bears frequently, boar occasionally.
Counting the days until we leave!
 
Lastly, if you do not like the bananas here, get your bananas somewhere else. Can always exercise your freedom of choice.

I'll agree that the fee charged directly related to the entrance of the park should be refunded.


The point was that people cannot exercise this freedom in cases where the trip was booked before incompetence resulted in the closure of all the national parks visitors were coming to see.

Tourist companies and US agencies rightfully make a big deal about the wonders of the US's natural attractions - then they effectively stuff those that book what, in many cases, will be trips of a lifetime.

Whether booked through an agency or done independently, the cost of the trip is far above the actual entrance fee to the national park, so a refund of park fees is neither here nor there.

As for getting bananas elsewhere, if I were booking a trip now, I would be going elsewhere until this mess is sorted, but what about those already holding tickets?
 
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I'm doing my best, to sort through this. On the one hand, one should have travel insurance that covers extraneous and unforeseen circumstances that "could" require a change in a planned itinerary. Apparently to anywhere, excluding US National Parks.

But, on the other hand.
In the case of US National Parks, that insurance is not required because US public revenue will cover those travel plans. That will be a hard sell to the American public. Where else in the world is that done? It's only my opinion, if an attempt is made to put that on the backs of the American people, it is probably best that attempt be made from offshore
 
I'm doing my best, to sort through this. On the one hand, one should have travel insurance that covers extraneous and unforeseen circumstances that "could" require a change in a planned itinerary.

If you have booked a trip to the US independently, i.e. flights, car hire, etc, with the sole intent to, for example, spent two weeks in Yellowstone, then travel insurance would not cover anything - whilst your holiday is effectively ruined, the trip itself is not cancelled from the insurance's point of view (the flight still goes, the car rental still operates, etc).

I also don't truly believe there is any mileage in the idea of compensation from any government department. Just basically, the unfortunate tourist loses out, be they a US tourist within the States, an international visitor, or indeed a US visitor to the US cemeteries in Europe.

Hopefully, they can bash there heads together before December ...or I have a very boring holiday ahead :) Or my second hope is that I get ill one week before and can get a doctor's note to cancel the whole thing ..thereby allowing my insurance to reimburse all :) :)
 
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I have to admit to being amused, as well as appalled, by the US shutdown. Then I watched an advert for "Wonga" that explained how reasonable it's loans are e.g. borrow £150 for 18 days for only £33. I live in a country where this is legal; laughter ends.
 
"New Scientist" (Oct 12 2013) has a piece on the shutdown. Makes for interesting reading, especially the bit about the potential spread of cholera while the Centres for Disease Control are also shut down. Scary stuff; so I hope somebody is still keeping an eye on the smallpox storage facility!
 
A few years back in Britain, we had an outbreak of Mad Cow Disease. A lot of the countryside was closed around the outbreak areas. This was one of the best things to happen to our fauna for years. The wildlife flourished as this shutdown was during the spring. As soon as man leaves an area to itself, nature is quick to return.

CB
 
If this drags on, can anybody see any reason for a birder to visit Florida? Virtually all the key sites are national parks, national wildlife refuges or similar, all are shut.

I'm actually coming to the end of a two week visit to Florida. It wasn't just a birding/wildlife watching holiday but I did plan to spend a large amount of time at various places affected by the Shutdown.

There are still a large amount of State Parks in Florida offering good birding, as well as Wildlife Management Areas etc. I also made it down to Big Cypress where the camps, car parks etc were shut, but the side roads all open so wildlife can be viewed as normal.

In fact the Shutdown may have made the roads quieter resulting in more wildlife being seen. I almost had the Ocala Nat. Forest to myself on two visits (again camps closed but roads open) allowing me some great Black Bear encounters, including a mother and two cubs. Two sightings were on a road which would usually seee a lot of traffic. Also, night traffic is almost zero as everyone heads home resulting in plenty of live snakes on the road.

I think I would have been far more disappointed had I centred my trip around Yellowstone or any of the big National Parks in other parts do the USA.
 
It quite convenient that such undesireable behaviour is normal carried out by the not particularly bright members of our society. While it is very sad to to see the effects of their absurdity, it is quite refreshing to see that they are willling to incriminate themselves in such a public way. Now, if services could be restored to their normal high standards, it will not take long to apprehend the culprits.
 
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It deserves a mention in this thread that the shutdown is over. I haven't heard of any particular backlogs relating to the national parks, but there might be a rush from flexible visitors that had planned to visit a little earlier.

Of course, the deal that Congress struck only funds the government for another three months, so there's no guarantee this won't all happen again soon. Remember, this shutdown followed a chain of near-shutdowns over pretty much the same issues, which were averted by kicking the can down the road in pretty much the same way.
 
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Amazingly, those idiots are boy scout leaders. Their excuse was the balancing rock was a hazard to hikers. |=(|

The parks and refuges are back in business. I am in a local National Wildlife Refuge Friends group, we were going to have to cancel an event if the shutdown was not over by Oct. 17.

Even more amazingly (at least as how stupid they are), the guy that pushed over that rock had just started a lawsuit from a fender bender, claiming back injuries which reduced his enjoyment of life, yada yada. Apparently his crippling back injury didn't stop him from pushing over the rock. Real classy guy there
 
Fortunately these retards provided the video evidence themselves, which will save the police a lot of time.
Is there some sort of operation that people must to go though, upon purchase of a digital video camera? Something involving a long, metal probe, stuck through the eye socket into the frontal lobes? :brains:

I can't come up with a better explanation...
 
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