Fallacy? (1 Viewer)

Here is a post from a forum, the viewer with a 7X50 binocular

"l was observing Saturn one clear Morning ,,and was able to see the Rings through these quite clearly"

Fact or fallacy?

If the former not the latter, my eyes are really bad and I don't wear glasses. I have to go to the eye doctor.....just kidding

A.W.

dries1 said:

Here is a post from a forum, the viewer with a 7X50 binocular

"l was observing Saturn one clear Morning ,,and was able to see the Rings through these quite clearly"

Fact or fallacy?

If the former not the latter, my eyes are really bad and I don't wear glasses. I have to go to the eye doctor.....just kidding

A.W.

Click to expand...

Hi, Andy:

There’s more here than MEETS THE EYE! I have seen Saturn’s rings with the Swift Storm King 7x50 now being discussed on CN. But, not only did the atmosphere need to be stable, the eyes need to be good, the instrument needs to be one of the better examples, and—more important than all that the rings need to be tilted fairly well.

People often talk about seeing Saturn’s rings as if they are there to be seen all the time—they’re not. When they are edge on, you can see them with a large apochromatic refractor ... MAYBE. People PLANNING on seeing Saturn’s rings with a 7x50 bino need to invest in ... a life. :cat:

Bill

WJC said:

Hi, Andy:

There’s more here than MEETS THE EYE! I have seen Saturn’s rings with the Swift Storm King 7x50 now being discussed on CN. But, not only did the atmosphere need to be stable, the eyes need to be good, the instrument needs to be one of the better examples, and—more important than all that the rings need to be tilted fairly well.

People often talk about seeing Saturn’s rings as if they are there to be seen all the time—they’re not. When they are edge on, you can see them with a large apochromatic refractor ... MAYBE. People PLANNING on seeing Saturn’s rings with a 7x50 bino need to invest in ... a life. :cat:

Bill

Click to expand...

You got a good answer from Bill, Andy. I would only add that the angular diameter (size) will also change and it's position in the sky (near vertical is best) will vary.

But yes, under the right circumstances one could see the rings of Saturn in a 7x bin. This in itself is not a test for any binocular and is certainly not a good instrument for planetary viewing.

It depends what one means by seeing Saturn's rings.

The elliptical shape when wide open has been claimed to be seen by individuals with exceptional eyesight without optical aid.
The crescent of a thin planet Venus is somewhat easier but still takes exceptionally good eyes.
Jupiter's moons have been seen with unaided eyes also, sometimes with 2 or 3 moons combined when they are close to each other, but Ganymede singly at elongation.

I have never seen any of the above.

However, I found it easy to see Saturn's elliptical shape with any good 7x binocular.

To see the gap between the rings and the globe I need 18x or more easily 20x binoculars.

I have seen the rings disappear entirely even with a fine 12.5 inch Dall Kirkham.
But a day earlier or later the moons are strung out like beads on a wire.
Cassini's division is also seen as a bright moonlike point in these rare circumstances.
This is the best time to see faint moons.
I have seen 7, maybe 8 Saturn's moons.

Titan, Saturn's brightest moon, is easily seen, at elongation, with many binoculars in good sky conditions.
It should also be possible to see Iapetus in favourable conditions with large binoculars.

Saturn's current declination is minus 22.5 degrees,which means it is very low in the sky from England.
The last few and the next few years Saturn is much better seen from the southern hemisphere.

The rings are currently 34 arcseconds long, about as small as possible, and 15 arcseconds wide.
The tilt of 26.5 degrees is about as large as possible.
Saturn is near its far point from the Earth at the moment.

Opposition is June 27 2018. The rings are then 42x18 arcseconds. Saturn is then nearest to the Earth.

Well I learned two things today.

1. It is possible to see the rings of Saturn with a good 7X50 glass, with the right atmospheric conditions and good eyesight.

2. Some people have exceptional vision.

dries1 said:

Well I learned two things today.

1. It is possible to see the rings of Saturn with a good 7X50 glass, with the right atmospheric conditions and good eyesight.

2. Some people have exceptional vision.

Click to expand...

And, they're not edge on! :cat:

Bill

PS It's like the bird watcher wishing to add Pterodactyl to his life list.

It may be easier to see the elliptical shape of Saturn's rings with a 7x28 or 7x30 binocular.
The image in a 7x50 may be too bright and the eyes opened up too much.

If a person has astigmatism it may not be possible, unless perhaps with very good prescription glasses.

Observers in southern U.S.A. are much better situated than here in Britain at the moment.

Perhaps the most beautiful view of the crescent of Venus I had was with my 5x25 Foton. A gorgeous small white perfect crescent. This Foton has very sharp optics.
This is best tried in twilight.

The 5x25 Foton might be ideal for Saturn's rings also, but it is too low for me here and hidden by buildings.

'ANNULO CINGITUR TENUI, PLANO, NUSQUAM COHAERENTTTE AD ECLIPTICAM INCLINATO'.
(Hopefully correct spelling).

I need at least 20x, probably 30x with a binocular or a telescope to see the true nature of Saturn's rings.

The Dutch astronomer Christiaan Huygens discovered this in 1655 with his own design 50x refracting telescope,(maybe with a Hughen eyepiece?).

He copyrighted the discovery with an anagram of the Latin sentence.

So to see the true nature of Saturn's rings one needs a higher magnification than the 7x of a 7x50 binocular.

Binastro said:

'ANNULO CINGITUR TENUI, PLANO, NUSQUAM COHAERENTTTE AD ECLIPTICAM INCLINATO'.
(Hopefully correct spelling).

I need at least 20x, probably 30x with a binocular or a telescope to see the true nature of Saturn's rings.

The Dutch astronomer Christiaan Huygens discovered this in 1655 with his own design 50x refracting telescope,(maybe with a Hughen eyepiece?).

He copyrighted the discovery with an anagram of the Latin sentence.

So to see the true nature of Saturn's rings one needs a higher magnification than the 7x of a 7x50 binocular.

Click to expand...

Much more. I knew what I was looking at. But, I didn't profess there was any benefit.

Things can be detected that can't be resolved. :cat:

Bill