Which binos are you comfortable holding roof or porro ? (1 Viewer)

Well, I believe, after 50yrs of this bino-using business, that the key to holding anything, whether bino, handgun, powertool, fountain pen, camera, et al, is learning fairly quickly to adapt to the various & sundry quirks, pecularities, ramifications and vicissitudes of the particular item to be held/used/maneuvered, and just generally handled to obtain (or arrive at) the optimum result/effect/desired goal. In other words (and not nearly so many), ya gotta be flexible, n' cest pas?

I'm now down to 6 binos (soon to be 5) from about a dozen a year of so ago, and that included reverse porro (Elite 7x26), regulation porros (Swift 820 & 3 SE's), roofs (8x32SP and 2 FL's), and a Canon 15x IS. Of those, I'd rate the Canon as having the best hold characteristics, the others seem to be equally easy/comfortable to hold....as Ronald mentioned above. Das is mein zwei pfenig (sic?).....

marinemaster said:

I have been using binos more lately and for me porro are more comfortable holding for longer without any muscle fatigue.

With roof binos, my muscles - don't know what they are called, upper arms do hurt after few minutes.

With porro no hurting at all. How is for everyone else ?

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I find holding porros more comfortable, generally. I think this is because of my physical type. I'm broad chested and using a modified military grip (below) I have to pull my arms a bit closer together when holding roofs. It makes a difference. People who are slighter in build may not have this issue.

No matter what type of bin you are using, a version of the "Thumbs Up" grip is recommended. When done correctly, your forearms are nearly vertical and against your chest. Try this and I'll bet any fatigue and/or unsteadiness will be greatly reduced.


http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=182210&d=1234831142

http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=182209&d=1234831122

Kevin Conville said:

I find holding porros more comfortable, generally. I think this is because of my physical type. I'm broad chested and using a modified military grip (below) I have to pull my arms a bit closer together when holding roofs. It makes a difference. People who are slighter in build may not have this issue.

No matter what type of bin you are using, a version of the "Thumbs Up" grip is recommended. When done correctly, your forarms are nearly vertical and against your chest. Try this and I'll bet any fatigue and/or unsteadiness will be greatly reduced.

http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=182210&d=1234831142

http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=182209&d=1234831122

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Thanks for posting those pix. I'm always interested in seeing how other people hold bins. I could write a book titled "A 1001 Ways to Hold Your 8x32 LX" since I've tried them all and couldn't get comfortable with any of them.

I tried the "Thumbs Up" grip with my 8x30 EII (is that an EII in the first photo? the eyecups and front end cap look different - not sure if it was you or the other Kevin who recently purchased the "black body" version).

That grip doesn't work for me, at least not for terrestrial viewing. I do use that grip for stargazing, but for terrestrial viewing, I need thumb support underneath the bins for the greatest stability. I have Bushwackers on my EII, which help give more support with my palms (also keeps reflections from my palms out of the optical path).

I currently don't have any closed bridged roofs, but I have tried your second grip with the 8x32 LX with some success, though with my large hands, my palms are nearly touching in that position.

Also, with my wrists bent in like that, it's not long before my Carpal Tunnel gets cut off. So I can't use the grip for extended periods.

I finally added a "fat suit" to my LX that made the barrels fatter, but the foam I used eventually compressed. If I could have found a more durable material that was also flexible enough to wrap around the bin, the "fat suit" idea might have worked.

But ultimately, the 8x32 LX's ergonomics and my hands turned out to be like Mickey Rooney's first seven marriages - a bad match.

Anyway, very interesting answers to my OP questions. I can appreciate bin designers challenge in sitting down at drafting table and trying to come up with a design that will fit most people's hands. A near herculean task!

Brock

Kevin is right, ya know......that thumbs up thing works, 'cause it eliminates the pulse in the thumb being transmitted to the bino chassis. (That's about the limit of my scientific analytical prowess....).

Kevin Conville said:

No matter what type of bin you are using, a version of the "Thumbs Up" grip is recommended. When done correctly, your forearms are nearly vertical and against your chest. Try this and I'll bet any fatigue and/or unsteadiness will be greatly reduced.

Click to expand...

I often use a version of the "Thumbs Up" grip with the thumbs lined up with , the eyepieces and the tips of my thumbs resting on my cheek bones. I find that reduces handshake quite considerably on windy days, especially when I'm using 10x binoculars, both porros and roofs. I don't like tugging my elbows in though, feels somehow "unnatural" to me.

Hermann

Malloot said:

Try House of Outdoor in Maarssen, I saw an Optolyth brochure there. So I'm near to convinced that they can do something for you. Due to a lack of time I didn't ask about the Royal's. But I'm also interested in getting a view trough these.

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Thanks!

I will certainly ask them when I'm visiting.
I had the Royal 7x42's back in 1986 for about three weeks, the smaller version of the 8x56's, with 2 focus wheels. Never felt any better roofs in my hands, outstanding in holding comfort, but due to the somewhat disappointing softness of the image, especially at the edges, I returned them.
Maybe the latest Royal 8x56's have updated coatings, then they could be very interesting. I never liked the looks of the Vianova 8x56 model, so I was never tempted to go and try one. The Royal line looks I was fond of already in 1983.
Couldn't afford one back then, so settled for the Alpin 7x42 porro's.

Best regards,

Ronald

KorHaan said:

Thanks!

I will certainly ask them when I'm visiting.
I had the Royal 7x42's back in 1986 for about three weeks, the smaller version of the 8x56's, with 2 focus wheels. Never felt any better roofs in my hands, outstanding in holding comfort, but due to the somewhat disappointing softness of the image, especially at the edges, I returned them.
Maybe the latest Royal 8x56's have updated coatings, then they could be very interesting. I never liked the looks of the Vianova 8x56 model, so I was never tempted to go and try one. The Royal line looks I was fond of already in 1983.
Couldn't afford one back then, so settled for the Alpin 7x42 porro's.

Best regards,

Ronald

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I have a circa 80s pair of Japanese made Optolyth knockoffs. They look almost identical to the 9x63 Royal.

They are very bright, are sharp at the center, but have astigmatism at the edges. From what I've read, the Royals are very similar optically.

Of course, these were made before phase coatings, and perhaps the ones your tried a while back were also pre-p's. Even so, they are very sharp in the centerfield perhaps due to the Abbe-Konig prisms. According to this Website, the FLs have p-coatings, though they no longer include the P in the name as they used to with the Zeiss 8x56 BGA T*P* Dialyt):

I find this a very interesting comment from the Webpage linked below:

"Phase coatings are actually a Zeiss innovation – one that has been imitated, but never duplicated, by other binocular manufacturers."

Really? Geez, no wonder the images through Leica, Swarovski, and Nikon roofs are so fuzzy.

Source (see "phase coatings): http://astronomics.com/main/product.asp/catalog_name/Christophers/category_name/BVCTMK2BXE5V9GV6LSMQTXM7R6/product_id/Z742FLN

In any case, I think the Royals are worth another look, however, I suspect their value isn't very good (that is, their price/performance ratio). Good ergonomics, but there are probably better bins to be had these days made more inexpensively in China from companies such as Zen Ray and Vortex.

Brock

brocknroller said:

I have a circa 80s pair of Japanese made Optolyth knockoffs. They look almost identical to the 9x63 Royal.

They are very bright, are sharp at the center, but have astigmatism at the edges. From what I've read, the Royals are very similar optically.

Of course, these were made before phase coatings, and perhaps the ones your tried a while back were also pre-p's. Even so, they are very sharp in the centerfield perhaps due to the Abbe-Konig prisms. According to this Website, the FLs have p-coatings, though they no longer include the P in the name as they used to with the Zeiss 8x56 BGA T*P* Dialyt):

I find this a very interesting comment from the Webpage linked below:

"Phase coatings are actually a Zeiss innovation – one that has been imitated, but never duplicated, by other binocular manufacturers."

Really? Geez, no wonder the images through Leica, Swarovski, and Nikon roofs are so fuzzy.

Source (see "phase coatings): http://astronomics.com/main/product.asp/catalog_name/Christophers/category_name/BVCTMK2BXE5V9GV6LSMQTXM7R6/product_id/Z742FLN

In any case, I think the Royals are worth another look, however, I suspect their value isn't very good (that is, their price/performance ratio). Good ergonomics, but there are probably better bins to be had these days made more inexpensively in China from companies such as Zen Ray and Vortex.

Brock

Click to expand...

Here is the latest version of the Optolyth 9 x 63 Royal. A bit sparse on information though.

http://www.deutscheoptik.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=4&products_id=451

Bob

brocknroller said:

....from companies such as Zen Ray and Vortex.

Brock

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In the Netherlands where KorHaan and I live the Zen Ray isn't available and the Vortex just from a webshop which doesn't allow you to view trough them before buying.